I have a 1943 Elgin Timer 7-jewel 16s that I have just stripped, inspected, cleaned and lubricated. It was a non-runner before, but I found 2 cracked balance jewels and both balance staff pivots snapped. I replaced the jewels and balance assembly and it now runs and keeps reasonable time. These items were from an identical watch from the same production run. HOWEVER, the balance swing is barely 30-40 degrees; just enough to allow the escape wheel to turn. It will continue running as long as I have the regulator set to fully "S". Move it from there and it slows to a complete stop. There is very little end shake and the staff and hairspring LOOK okay. Any ideas, anyone? Am I looking at new staff/hairspring and/or jewels? I've never replaced a staff, and have limited tools and experience, so any advice would be appreciated.

Hello Simon, and welcome to the club.

There could be any manner of things ailing your watch including the balance, jewels and hairspring you've replaced.

Taking aside the balance area for the time being, did you inspect the mainspring?
If this is weak and 'set', it won't transmit sufficient power through the train to give a decent impulse to the roller jewel as far as the escape wheel anyway.

Is the train free?
A trick an old watchmaker taught me to use, was prior to fitting the lever, to give the mainspring barrel a tweak sufficient to allow it to drive the train (not too much) and to note what happens when the train stops - does it then run backwards a tad, or stop dead.

If it runs backwards and then forwards again a touch, then generally all is ok. If it stops it's not good as there's excess friction, check the train pivots and meshing again!

Did you lube the pallet pivots?
If so, I'd recommend you strip and clean the watch again.

Often, the drag from the oil on the pivots (even with ultra light oil) is sufficient to stop a watch.
Most of the skilled watchmakers in the UK I know never oil the pallet staff for this reason - the staff only moves in a relatively small arc anyway, not a full rotation.

Is the hairspring oily, magnetised or catching another coil, or either the balance arms or the balance cock, any of those defects will reduce balance amplitude sufficient to stop a watch.

Is the balance free in the jewels or a bit 'sticky'?
You also need to check the guard pin to roller and roller jewel to fork clearance etc as any of those could be binding, and even too much clearance which will rob the balance of power from the roller impulse.

Who said watch repairs are easy

I'm sure others will jump in and add stuff I've missed here.

Good luck

John

Thanks for your pointers, John. I'll give your advice a try when I dismantle the watch again!! While I have your attention, and I know it's a bit cheeky to ask, but could you, or anyone else, possibly advise on a reliable source of Elgin parts for this type of watch, preferably in the UK? Sources in the US seem to charge the earth for postage. I have a few that need balance staffs, various screws, mainsprings, hands, etc.

hi another thing you may want to check is it possible when you put the hairspring back on it may be off to one side or the other?if that happened it would put the watch out of beat.that may be why it will only work when you move the regulator all the way to one side that would help some in that situation.i am not the best watchmaker around but it may be something to check. james

Simon,
Sorry but I don't know of any UK suppliers of American watch parts, I usually get them via IHC members when I need them.

I don't think I've ever paid more than $11 USD for shipping even for a complete watch, which I don't think is bad really.

I need some Elgin bits myself when I manage to get around to doing some repairing again, so will be joining you on a parts hunt!

You could always try Brian C to see if he can help via pwpartsetc@pwatch.com

If he has all the stuff you need, I'm sure he'll look after you as regards shipping costs.

Best regards

John.

I have come to the conclusion that the mainspring is the cause of my problems. When I remove the barrell and manually "load" the train with a piece of pegwood, the balance runs like a dream. I can only imagine that the mainspring has lost its power over the 60-ish years its been running the watch.
Anyone any idea of a mainspring part number for this watch? I think its a 5980, but not entirely sure.
Another thing - this watch has a standard sized balance, but Wayne Schlitt's Elgin Watch Database suggests that it should be a "jitterbug" balance (40 bps, tiny balance wheel). Of course, the balance may have been replaced by somebody in the past. Any suggestions anyone?

Simon,
You are correct with the 5980 number for the m/s but that is the number for a steel spring. The closest number that I have for a white alloy unbreakable m/s is 817. E-mail me if you can use it. I won't burn you on the shipping.
Thanks,
Brian C.
PS Thanks John W for the kind words.