On 1/21 I posted a question on how to restore a dial on a Waltham P.S. Bartlett that had one of those awful repro decals or paintings on it.

The first pic shows the dial as it was when I bought the watch. The second is after I scraped at it a bit and discovered there might be a decent, correct dial underneath. The third shows it as it is now.

http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/jwdavis1112001/lst?.dir=/Waltham+Dial&.src=ph&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/bc/jwdavis1112001/lst%3f%26.dir=/Waltham%2bDial%26.src=ph%26.view=t&.view=t

Many thanks to Steve Maddox for the suggestion to use carb cleaner...it worked like a charm!

Steve, you were right about the seconds bit coming loose. Could you pass along a suggestion on how to repair it? Thanks!

Jack

On the subject of dial repair. I have a very nice 18s Hamilton monty dial with two feet cut off. I found a solder that is advertised to melt and adhere st 158 degrees. Perfect. I will pick some up monday and try it out. I'll let everyone know how it works out and pass along any info I come up with.
158 deg.? Sounds strange to me too. We'll see.

Aaron Bereiter
NAWCC# 156432
Very Proud IHC Charter #55
You will never prosper if you live your life in fear.

I've often wondered what Larry Ehrhardt was covering up with those goofy looking dials. Now after seeing your pictures the bigger question is WHY???

You're doing a good thing, I commend your actions. There are several ways of putting your dial back together, the most permanent of which is soldering. The method Aaron mentioned sounds good.

You're right that Steve has probably "been there, done that" more than the rest of us put together. Let's see what he comes up with.

Lindell

Lindell,

I agree as to "why"? It was speculated on another board that the decal probably covered up a damaged dial. What a pleasant surprise to find an original, I assume, certainly correct dial with no visible hairlines or chips!

I have to say that with all the debate raging about switched dials, cases and covering up changes to watches, it really made my day to find that dial underneath the repro.

Jack

Jack,

I have heard the low melt solder called "bismuth" solder. Bismuth itself melts at about 208 degrees C, but used to alloy other metals (lead), it lowers the melting point apparently. Can anyone comment on that?

I have had some success using bismuth solder to solder new feet onto porcelain dials. Using a tinsmith's soldering iron of course, from the back side of the dial. I'm glad it is not my job to try to solder the seconds bit, I must say. Let us know how you make out.

Doug S.

Great job,Jack! Did Steve get back to you regarding an easy way to re-attach the seconds bit? So much to learn,so little time!

Sam Williamson
NAWCC 154312
IHC Charter Member 14
Member Chapters 96 and 185

Hi Guys,

Sorry for the delay in replying! I've been sick with a terrible sinus infection, and I'm still not feeling very well even now.

The subsidiary seconds bits in really old dials were not soldered in place like those in later dials. I don't know why -- maybe they just didn't have the technology, but the subsidiary sections in early dials were "glued" into place either with hot-melt shellac, or a white "cement" that looks a lot like tile grout. Actually, the dials I've seen that have been held together with shellac may have been repaired at some time in the past, and may have originally been held together with the white "tile grout."

In any event, the easiest way to repair a subsidiary section that's separated is to move it into proper position from the back, then stick it in place with a piece of clear tape applied from the front. Clear tape is best because it allows complete viewing to ensure that the section remains properly positioned. Once that's done, SuperGlue®, epoxy, or any similar material can be applied in the joint between the sections on the back. If one really wants to do the job "right," I'd recommend using white tile grout, which is cheap, commonly available, easy to use, and is virtually indistinguishable from the original. Regardless of what "cement" is used, leave the tape in place until it has thoroughly dried.

Dials whose sections are soldered together are more difficult to repair -- at least, in my experiences. The solders they used in the old days did have a high bismuth content (which I think has been determined to be hazardous), but like any other "soft solder," they required a flux in order to readily adhere to the metal. I'm not sure what flux was used originally, but many types of modern flux will actually etch the porcelain, which obviously is an unacceptable side effect.

I've soldered dial sections and dial feet using Harris "Stay-Brite"® solder, which I think is nearly pure tin. I can't remember its exact melting point, but I think it's about 450 degrees Fahrenheit. In any event, all "soft solders" melt at temperatures significantly lower than the melting point of the porcelain, which as I recall, is about 1900 degrees F.

For a previous discussion about soldering dial feet, check out the following old topic from the NAWCC Message Board: http://nawcc-mb.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=2386079361&f=4316035461&m=4926057461

Unfortunately, like a lot of topics there, that one eventually accumulated several unhelpful replies, a few of which were apparently posted by well-meaning people, who simply didn't know what they were talking about. As with all information anywhere, it's important to consider the particular source, and make appropriate decisions about which advice to follow.

Glad to know things are going well so far -- Let us all know how it eventually turns out!

Steve Maddox
President, NAWCC Chapter #62
North Little Rock, Arkansas

On the thread that Steve supplied a link to the super glue didnt hold up long and the dial was loose again. I am going to get some of that busmuth solder I saw monday morning and give it a shot on my dial deet. I'll let everyone know how it goes.
On a side note, I bought a 992 with one of those puke ugly red train engine transfers on it. I used carb cleaner to remove the transfer and found a nice Hamilton marked dial under it. 140.00 for a ugly 992 because no one wanted that funky dial. What a deal because now its a very nice watch with the same dial.
Aaron Bereiter
NAWCC# 156432
Very Proud IHC Charter #55
You will never prosper if you live your life in fear.