WWT Shows CLICK TO: Join and Support Internet Horology Club 185™ IHC185™ Forums

• Check Out Our... •
• TWO Book Offer! •
Go
New Topic
Find-Or-Search
Notify
Tools
Reply to Post
  
What's this odd looking 4992B all about? "Click" to Login or Register 
posted
I haven't seen any mention here of this version.

What's this all about, it looks very different from what I've see before?

 
Posts: 129 | Registered: August 07, 2007
IHC President
Life Member
Picture of Lindell V. Riddle
posted

Hello Irwin,

The watch shown in image below your post is a 4992B that has been converted from 24 to 12-hour configuration. On that one, someone added a 4th wheel pinion which provides two second hands... "so nice they did it twice" ...comes to mind. Smile A converted 4992B is an interesting curiosity and a good watch to carry, but as a collectable artifact most of us would likely prefer an unaltered, original example.

The 4992B was so plentiful in the late 1940s and into the 1950s as a war-surplus item there were many of them converted to be more like a civilian watch. It was part of the work assignment in many watch-making schools during that time-frame. Every now and then a seller will claim they were "factory" items which is incorrect. During World War II Hamilton made both the 3992B and the 2974B in 12-hour configuration so originally any factory modification would have been unnecessary.


Here is some additional reading...


"Find-Or-Search" for "4992B Conversion"

"Find-Or-Search" for "3992B"

"Find-Or-Search" for "2974B"


And still more to look at here...


"Find-Or-Search" for 4992B


Hope you find it interesting!

Lindell

Wink

 
Posts: 10553 | Location: Northeastern Ohio in the USA | Registered: November 19, 2002
IHC Vice President
Pitfalls Moderator
IHC Life Member
Picture of Edward L. Parsons, Jr.
posted
A really good 12-hour watch Hamilton was producing during WW2 was the military 992B of course.

Here's C80563 (circa 1944) from my collection. It's got a CPR-style 24-hour dial with red 13-24 numerals, "ORDNANCE DEPARTMENT" engraved on the back cover and "US GOVT" engraved on the train bridge.


U.S. Military 992B -- C80563 (1944)


 
Posts: 6696 | Location: Southwestern Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: April 19, 2004
posted
This document may be of interest because it shows that the first two sample 3992Bs were really converted 4992Bs and they are the only known factory altered 4992B watches.

Don

 
Posts: 173 | Location: Columbia, Pennsylvania U.S.A. | Registered: July 13, 2004
posted
As Lindell mentioned, the movement was modified by some watchmaker and then a dial from a Hamilton railroad watch was added to it, and then this was dropped into a case from another watch. Some resellers tout watches like this as 'special' or 'rare' but they are not being forthcoming by not saying it was a put together assembly of modified and unrelated parts.

I agree with Lindell that it is likely a very nice and accurate watch to carry for telling you the time, but it is not something that I would consider to be a military timepiece with any historical attributes.
 
Posts: 871 | Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA | Registered: September 20, 2004
posted
Yes, Hamilton made many 16-size 12 hour watches for the military in WWII.

They made 18,938 21 jewel railroad watches (992B) for the Army.

They made 220 for the Navy as Aircraft Navigation Watches. These had to be 992Bs as well, because they were also 21 jewels. If they were 3992Bs or 4992Bs, they would have 22 jewels.

They also made 15,563 17 jewel comparing watches (2974B)

These are war production numbers. Some of these were produced after the war as well.

Don
 
Posts: 173 | Location: Columbia, Pennsylvania U.S.A. | Registered: July 13, 2004
IHC Life Member
Picture of Tom Allerding
posted
Hi Ed,

I have a 992B (SN C80806) with the same case and dial as the one you posted above. My case has no military markings, but the movement is marked US Govt. I was later told that all of the 992B's that Hamilton supplied to the military during this time had a Montgomery style dial, and that the CPR type with 24 hour markers was an aftermarket replacment. Do you agree or could this type of dial be original? Thanks,

Tom
 
Posts: 139 | Location: Spokane, Washington USA | Registered: August 16, 2005
IHC Vice President
Pitfalls Moderator
IHC Life Member
Picture of Edward L. Parsons, Jr.
posted
Tom,

To the best of my knowledge the CPR-type dial (Dial 090) with the red inner track was original to these military issue 992B's.


Best Regards,

Ed
 
Posts: 6696 | Location: Southwestern Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: April 19, 2004
posted
Whitney says that 12 hour 992B and 24 hour dial 4992B watches were both military issue and used by Army Corps of Engineers railroad personnel. Their original cases would be either nickel or base metal with a screw back and bezel, and the backs are engraved:

U.S.
ORDNANCE DEPT.
WATCH - R.R. GRADE
MFRS. PART NO. 992B
SERIAL NO. OE - xxxxxxx
HAMILTON WATCH CO.
 
Posts: 871 | Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA | Registered: September 20, 2004
IHC Life Member
Picture of Tom Allerding
posted
Thanks guys - I now feel much better about my own version of this watch! My case lacks the military markings Jim described, so I assume it's a replacement. But it's good to know that the dial and movement are correct.

Best,

Tom
 
Posts: 139 | Location: Spokane, Washington USA | Registered: August 16, 2005
posted
The dial on the frankenwatch that started this thread - the one with the converted 4992B movement with the extra second hand - is not the same dial that was used on either the 4992Bs or the 12 hour 992Bs, though it looks very similar to the 12 hour 992B style dial. The biggest difference is the 992B 12 hour dial's numeral 3 has a flat stroke for the top of the 3 while this one has a rounded top to the 3. There are other smaller differences as well.

Many thanks for the copy of the Hamilton document with the information on the two sample master navigation watches that were converted from 4992B to 3992B specs. However unless there is something more, the wording in this memorandum does not convince me that these two were anything but special "one-off" samples that were made for the purpose of creating two specimens for the purpose of meeting a particular contractual requirement of the British Purchasing Commission rather than as a regular activity.
 
Posts: 871 | Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA | Registered: September 20, 2004
IHC Life Member
Picture of David Abbe
posted
This is what I think Lindell referred to as a "post war conversion" of a 4992. It is excellent condition and extremely accurate! It is signed as a 4992B . . .

 
Posts: 6492 | Location: Southern California in the USA | Registered: July 19, 2007
IHC Life Member
Picture of David Abbe
posted
The watch is not a "Hacker".

 
Posts: 6492 | Location: Southern California in the USA | Registered: July 19, 2007
posted
I have been told a thousand times that there was a conversion kit that included a new hour wheel, minute wheel, dial, hands and case back. I have never run across any documentation to veryify this.

Don

P.S. Here is the 090 dial that Ed showed:

 
Posts: 173 | Location: Columbia, Pennsylvania U.S.A. | Registered: July 13, 2004
posted
Here is the 091 dial.

Don

 
Posts: 173 | Location: Columbia, Pennsylvania U.S.A. | Registered: July 13, 2004
posted
Here is the 084 dial.

Don

 
Posts: 173 | Location: Columbia, Pennsylvania U.S.A. | Registered: July 13, 2004
posted
And finally the 079

Don

 
Posts: 173 | Location: Columbia, Pennsylvania U.S.A. | Registered: July 13, 2004
  Powered by Social Strata  
 


©2002-2023 Internet Horology Club 185™ - Lindell V. Riddle President - All Rights Reserved Worldwide

Internet Horology Club 185™ is the "Family-Friendly" place for Watch and Clock Collectors