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Another Model 12 up on ebay. Dial is not SS but looks "funny" around the center bit. Just thought I'd pass it along in case you're interested in tracking the 12's too Terry. This is not intended as a pitfall in any way. Seller is very up front.
Here's the auction..
The watch is not working.
# 8318099 (on case)
# Railway Special (on dial)
# 992B (on movement)
# C187756 (on movement)
let's see if an image of the case mark can be obtained...
dial... a melamine 121 that has started to shrink.
I've written to them, asking for a picture or an explanation of what the inside of the caseback contains.
If this one happens to be a Defiance case, it's interesting that it is apparently numbered some 31000 and change beyond the one above, and yours. Were these cases also used for the Traffic Specials during this time? Did I read somewhere that these were actually Star-made?
Here is some additional info about the "Star Watch Case Co."
Information about the Star Watch Case Co. can be found in the book, "History of the American Watch Case," Warren H. Niebling, Whitmore Publishing, Philadelphia, PA, 1971 (available on loan by mail to members from the ***** Library). Otto A. Starke and Fred Herman founded the company in Elgin, IL in 1897. The company moved to Ludington, MI in 1905, where they eventually employed about 150 people. A 1913 Star ad can be see at:
Until WWI, only pocket watch cases were made. Afterwards, wristwatch cases were added to the line. The company continued to make watch cases until at least the mid-1970's. Cases were made of solid gold, gold filled, sterling silver and eventually, chrome plated base metal.
The above mentioned book lists these Star watch case grades:
"Stellar" > 10 K Rolled gold plate
Thanks Robert. I should have been more succint in my question.
Were these exact Model 12 cases used on Traffic Specials at the same time they were used on 992Bs (ie in 1947)?
I know that in the 60's the TS II was offered with a similar case (if not identical), but I'm wondering about how rare the case may have been on a 992B.
p.s. Your most recent post beat my reply. Thank you for the additional information. I may just check that book out, as it sounds interesting, and could provide valuable insight into what happened when.
The Model #16 seems to be a duplicate of the Traffic Special of the 1930's, but I don't recall seeing a TS that is identical to the #12.
This is the picture I was referring to Robert, (1963 TSII), but in digging deeper I've since learned it was in yellow RGP. And the bow and pendant are similar, but not identical.
My real question though remains, was the Star Defiance case offered on any other Hamiltion watches, in identical form to the 1947 "version" when it was used on the 992B?
The later Traffic special cases are not exactly the same....
the movements are swiss made and may be sized slightly different...
I have a Stainless TS and a RGP TS, one with a 669 movement,other with 670 movement...
the late TS were numbered I II III IV .......
I do not believe the model 12 case is the same as any of the Late TS cases.
Robert has it 'correct' above regarding the 16....
it was a TS case first, then POSSIBLY the Model B, (both of these marked 10k GF)... and then the model 16 (marked RGP)
Good luck on the N book..... ***** library may be only source at this time.... have 'heard' rurmors of a reprinting.......
The model 12 on a 992B is seemingly scarce...... but went UN-NOTICED for YEARS........
What are chances of the gold-filled case decribed below being your case? Time period matches up, produced by "Star" and gold filled.
"Courtesy Don Dahlbery at Library"
In a document titled "1948 -- Introduction of New Models, Dials, etc."
We have "September 29 - Model Yellow 10K RR, 992B - Pocket Watch
About 170 sent 9/29/48
These were Star Watch Case Co cases-similar to our so called "Traffic Special" case. About 2000 were purchased and to be billed as a #9 RR Model. Cases cost us $6.50 ea.
[$]29.12, 36.40, 71.50" [These would be wholesale, jeweler and customer prices respectively.
This configuration did not appear in any catalog that I have seen, but I did find it in the Oct 15, 1948 price list as "$36.40, $71.50". It was not listed in either the Jan 18, 1948 or the Oct 1, 1949 price list. Clearly it did not last long.
Isn't this a Model 9? It is WGF I believe, because the caseback says 14K. But it is also Signed Hamilton. Or is this perhaps an earlier Model 9 than what you're referring to Robert?
the model 9 case show by Tref is a Fahy's produced case...... much earlier.
cant tell by color in pic, but 14k GF is either WGF or Green GF
As Terry mentioned, the earlier Fahys #9 was first received in Jan. 1931, according to Don research.
Without any image of a possible later #9, it is pure speculation, but in my opinion, the information listed in my post above might match Lindell's yellow gold-filled, "Star" case.
Below is another image of the model #9.
Forgive me if I've missed this in reading through the thread, but what was the reason for the brevity of the use of the case? It seems quite attractive.
Also how similar is it to the number 16 case (leaving apart the difference in the bows)?
Hope my questions are not too off-the-point.
not at all jessica....
speculation at this point.......
Fahy's, the manufacturer of the model 9 did not survive to the 992B era..
the model 9 case shown in the text above from Don D. is not the same case !!!!
we are dealing with two completely different eras here....
This case shares only being a 16s, screw back and bezel features with the model 16....
this thread seemed to jump off track from the model 12 to where we are now........
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