Hamilton Wadsworth model #8 case

October 28, 2019, 14:53

Larry Helms

I am new to the forum and collect and service pocket watches(new to servicing). I have a question about the authenticity of a Hamilton Wadsworth case #8 that has a 6 digit serial number not 7. Is it correct and if so is it around 1935?

The case serial number is 087682

October 28, 2019, 16:59

Lindell V. Riddle

Welcome Aboard Larry,

As you are probably aware, we have a fairly comprehensive Wadsworth Case Number Workup showing the 1935 reference as 0800000 which as you mentioned is SEVEN digits, not just six.

https://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/...254108073/m/86410695

We do find unusual items such as yours from time-to-time. My thinking is someone was a bit "bleary-eyed" on a Monday morning and simply missed the last digit for your case.

However, another possibility could also be that two consecutive numbers alike in the complete number may have caused confusion for the machine operator.

If you are you able to find numbers stamped around the rim of the frame on front as well as around the edge of the bezel that could be very helpful and might even contain the missing digit.

As an example of full markings Wadsworth Case 8 number 0644618 carries X4618 down low on the front of the case frame and X4618 inside of the bezel edge. (Wadsworth used an "X" followed by the last 4 digits on frame and bezel.) Notice the consecutive "44" in that number which is the kind of thing that could have confused the person stamping numbers inside your case-back and may have caused a number to be omitted.

Please post an image of the entire case for authenticity and let us know what you find on the frame and bezel. Your complete case information will be worthwhile to retain for reference.

You do have a "circa 1935" case and the movement number is always of interest too, please share it with us as well. Thanks for sharing your very interesting case!

Lindell

October 28, 2019, 18:09

Roger Stephens

I too,have a six digit Wadsworth Model 8 case
087881, X7881 on bezel and body.
992E movement s/n 2606854. Circa 1935-1937

Roger

October 29, 2019, 13:24

Larry Helms

Thank you so much for the reply. Yes both the bezel and case frame have X7682 marked on them. As far as a movement I have a separate 992B movement from 1949 that I may put into this case. Yes I know they are far away different dates. The reason is the case is from 1935 that is my fathers birth year and he loves the 992B movement and I may put it into it for him. Maybe also look for a 1949 case. I just loved the Model 8 case.

October 29, 2019, 13:27

Larry Helms

Her is the movement just placed in the case.

October 30, 2019, 09:54

Lindell V. Riddle

WEEELLLL....

This is very interesting and something I had not previously been aware of.

Roger's CASE 8 numbered 087881 and Larry's 087682 less than 200 numbers below indicates yet another note is required in our Wadsworth Case Numbers Workup to point out this important fact. One odd case could be an "error" as I suggested above but when we find two it becomes worthy of notation for the historical record!

Thanks to both of you for sharing those important numbers!

And Larry, not to preach at you but the Case 8 was used for only for a short time, from 1931 through 1936 and installing a 992B from a decade-and-a-half later in a Case 8 even makes another set of case-screw marks on the case frame which we should always avoid. Rather than putting a 1949 "B" movement in a mid-1930s "Pre-B" case please consider using a similar looking 1949-era Case 2 for the 1949 movement you have.

The fact that has come to light about "6-digit" case numbers from Wadsworth in 1935 makes it all the more important to keep this particular 1935 case original with a 1935 Hamilton 992-Elinvar movement. Changing things around like you contemplate greatly decreases value and removes collector interest causing the result to be in essentially the "parts-watch" category. Those are your parts and the choice of how to use them is yours and yours alone, but as you spend more time with us and learn more about this hobby you will come to realize that condition and authenticity are exceedingly important.

Many of us treasure a complete, correct example from the year we came on the scene and since your father is from 1935 having a correct, complete 1935 Hamilton 992-Elinvar in Case 8 along with 1935 advertising showing the complete watch and other materials to go with it would likely mean a great deal to him. He might also like to have a 992B for the family collection, there are many ways to go there, all of them are interesting.

The whole point in all the many hours of research we do on movements and cases is to maintain these historical artifacts in original condition to the greatest extent possible. As serious collectors we are caretakers of Horological History and if you would like to have help in putting correct examples together we will do all we can to be of assistance.

That is why we are here,

Lindell

October 30, 2019, 14:10

Larry Helms

Lindell thank you for your thoughts. Yes I agree the case deserves a proper dated movement which I am looking for. I will also look for a proper case for the 1949 movement.

thank you,
Larry

October 30, 2019, 14:46

Larry Helms

Anyone here that can help locate the 992E (1935) and/or a 1949 case I would appreciate it.
Larry

October 30, 2019, 21:44

Roger Stephens

Just to document my 992E in case 8

October 30, 2019, 21:45

Roger Stephens

October 30, 2019, 21:46

Roger Stephens

October 31, 2019, 08:27

Dr. Debbie Irvine

THANK YOU ROGER, YOU HAVE A BEAUTIFUL EXAMPLE!

Larry,

Part of being an IHC185 Member is the ability to utilize our BUY AND SELL HERE, THE IHC185™ TRADING MART

We cordially invite you to join IHC185 with a minimal donation of only $12.00 a year.

CLICK HERE TO: Join and Support the Internet Horology Club 185™

And you can purchase a Watch Guide with worthwhile information on watches.

We look forward to you joining us,

Debbie

November 02, 2019, 05:34

Larry Helms

I have a question about what would be a date appropriate movement for a 1935 Model #8 case? I know that 1935 would be no question appropriate, however, would a 1934 or 1936 be also appropriate?
thank you,
Larry

November 02, 2019, 05:52

Larry Helms

Was looking on line and found this. Here is another example looks like 087551?

Also all three of these examples have the numbers in a line not a "v".

November 02, 2019, 19:37

Lindell V. Riddle

Larry,

The recent case number you found (Thanks!) ends in either 551or 661 so rechecking the source might be worthwhile. Unfortunately, someone added some machining apparently to remove “service marks” from inside the case-back.

That movement information is a part of the "Gelson Listings" included in our exclusive "Hamilton Movement Number Listings and Reference Materials” section.

According to information on numbered page 20 of the "Gelson Listings" a 992-Elinvar from the 1934-37 time frame should be within approximately 2595000 through 2608000 and perhaps a little beyond those numbers as movements can lag a bit behind case numbers and cases can sit in inventory a while before being used in production.

I would once again urge you to “Join and Support Internet Horology Club in order to participate fully in our “BUY AND SELL HERE, THE IHC185™ TRADING MART” to see all that is for sale and you can also advertise for all your wants at no additional cost.

When you join, that is a good time to buy a Watch Guide which is chock-full of valuable information.

At this time, as a “Registered User” you can see only a small percentage of all we have available to IHC Members so joining could be quite beneficial for you.

We look forward to you joining us and supporting this fascinating hobby.

Sincerely,

Lindell

November 03, 2019, 05:41

Larry Helms

Lindell,
I looked at it again and can't get a better image. Looks like 551.
Larry

November 09, 2019, 06:02

Larry Helms

Lindell,
Thank you for your input. An alternative would be to sell the Model 8 case rather than finding a movement for it. What do you think such a case with rare numbering would be worth. Don't know if this is appropriate here to ask such a question but I could not find anywhere else to post questions about value.
thank you,
Larry

November 10, 2019, 07:50

Larry Helms

Anyone have an idea what such a case would be worth? Again not sure this is the forum for this but no one has answered me.
thank you,
Larry

November 10, 2019, 10:22

Roger Stephens

Larry, I will put my 2 cents in and that is about all it is worth.
Since I have one of these cases, I like to think there would be a
premium because of it's scarcity. Now whether anyone else would do the
same is the question. The case in good shape, no brassing, tight bow,
good crystal, no dents ding's etc. should bring $100-150.00.
Post it here with a reserve and test the waters.
Just my opinion.

Roger

November 10, 2019, 16:21

Roger Stephens

Another Model 3 six digit 992E on the Jones-Horan
Auction. S/N 2617067, Case 087613

November 10, 2019, 16:26

Roger Stephens

I can't upload the movement for some reason.
s/n 2617067

November 10, 2019, 16:35

Paul J. Williams

Larry , be sure to take your time, research sales.
As you already know loose #8 cases are not readily found available among common circles.
The current value I’ve recently paid at auction is much higher than suggested.

Regards, Paul

November 11, 2019, 05:34

Larry Helms

Yes It might be a little low for recently on Ebay one that had the 7 digits sold for CA $200.

December 02, 2019, 05:16

Larry Helms

The 087613 case is up on Ebay now for sale. case alone.

December 02, 2019, 23:50

Roger Stephens

I will be watching that one.

Roger

December 06, 2019, 10:44

William Thomas

This case is on ebay. Apparently bought at J&H auction. Described as unworn, yet with some serious scratches on case back.

December 08, 2019, 23:41

Roger Stephens

Sold for $224.94 Scratches and all!

Roger

January 30, 2020, 10:17

Larry Helms

there is another one up on Ebay for $165

087544

Larry