Here's an interesting regulator on Hamilton s#18099. I have not seen this before. This is a mid 1890s movement (first run Hamilton 928).

kh

Ken, that 928 has a different regulator than mine. My 928 and 929 do not have a regulator arm at all.

Not the standard balance cock at all..Hairspring is attached different also..It looks like the right balance cock as far as the demaskeen goes for this movement but did you check to see if the numbers stamped underneath matches the serial number on watch..Very interesting..Will be interested to see what others have to say about it..

The early 928's and 929's had this type of regulator. These early 928 and 929 regulators are discussed in some threads on this great site. Maybe someone can find and post this info.
Tony

Ken I believe Tony is right. I read the post Tony was referring to but I don't remember the particulars. I check my two 928's and my 3 929's and the hairspring attaches differently than yours. Mine have the typical Hamilton two stud and bar retainer.

One more thing it seems to me that the post Tony is referring to had something to do with the regulator arm and hairspring. Seems the best I can remember that during the production Hamilton change the style.

These very collectible low production, low jewel count Hamilton movements were intended to explore markets for a less expensive Hamilton branded watch, but very soon Hamilton realized the profits (for Hamilton at least) from higher jeweled RR grade (etc.) watches were significantly better.

The simplified regulator probably saved more than leaving out 1 pair of jewels for the center wheel.

Here's the expected Roman numeral dial of this piece. I've forgotten the proper name for the hands, as I've heard more than one.

"Closed" (solid) Morning Glory hands, nice combination. If the hands were pierced, they would then be "open" Morning Glory.

That Chain ands fob set deserves a separate posting.

Ah, thanks David.

David is right, RRG is where it's at for Hamilton pocket watches.

Oh I acknowledge the importance of railroad grade, but given the choice between an equal condition 21j rrg 940 or a first run 15j non-rrg 928, I gotta go with the 928.

kh

Flat hairspring and simple regulator (as opposed to the usual Breguet hair spring and micro-metric regulator) does suggest lower cost & performance.

William

That's for sure, Will. In all seriousness, if it was the year 1901 or so, and I had a choice between an old 15j 928 and one of them new-fangled 21j 940s, I'd splash for the 940 in an instant.
It's switched up now (IMHO) because I wouldn't be carrying a collectible 15j watch, and I'm not trying to amass 940s!

kh

Ken I agree with you. RR grades are nice but I like the lower production Hamilton's like yours. In my humble opinion a 21J Hamilton 940 is a beautiful watch but not very collectable. On any given day the bay will have 15 to 20 or more 940's on there but be lucky to have one 928.

Ken,
One of my 928's -sn 18333 looks just like yours.
tony

I got interested in the 928s and 929s when I noticed the early regulator configuration which was unique to those models. I had read somewhere that they were only on the first run, 18,001-18,209 (for 928), but Tony's is from the second run 18,301-18,500. So far I haven't found anything that says when the change over was really done. Ken's is the first one I have seen on eBay since I started tracking them early this year and it looks like a really nice one. The later 928/929 show up frequently maybe once or twice a week and often just as movements.

I had one 928 go through my collection a few years ago that was double signed James B Hayden, Topeka, Kansas who was an Official certified Ball sales and Railroad watch inspector in Topeka.

My description of record is:
Made by; Hamilton Watch Co
Serial number; 36921
Movement; 928
Wind/Set; Pendant/Lever
Size; 18
# Jewels; 17
# Adjustments; 5 Positions, Temperature, Isochronism
Date of manufacture; 1898
Dial/Hands, Single Sunk Porcelain signed James B. Hayden, Roman numerals, dual tracked minute markers, Mixed Med Spade, Closed Morning Glory hands
Case; Display
Condition; Excellent, Running Strong

As mine was produced shortly after yours, it showed the design changes that were a "half-step" to the "modern" (less goose neck spring and adjustor) Hamilton regulator as well as the newer hair spring stud mounting system. Also it is a lever set.


The winning bidder took it for about $400.00 and change

David -- a quick note to say the 928 #18099 above (top) is lever set like yours was.

kh

How much do you think these non-RRG Hamiltons are going to increase in value in the future? The fact that they sell for such low prices in relation to their rarity tells me they haven't done that well in the past.

Ed, the rarity of the lower jewel count 18 size Hamilton watches should justify a value that is at least equal if not higher than the 17 Jewel 18 size movements. The case quality and originality to the movement is also a large share of the collectible value.

Ed like Eric said. Collect what you like. Some people only like RR quality and that is fine. Some people see this as an investment to someday may money when they sell it. That is fine. But some people (myself included) like the movement because of it's rarity or it being uncommon even if it goes down in value. I purchased a home it has gone down in value, I purchased a truck and it has gone down in value, why shouldn't my watches do the same

Of course no one likes to loose value but I do not think everyone is concerned with the resale value. I know people who collect NYS's. There are a few valuable NYS's but this guy collects them all.

Ken,

FYI all 18-size Hamiltons were lever set.

I'm moving this topic to the Hamilton forum, which is where it belongs.

Hamilton must have made this type regulator for a while before going to the hidden regulator, then changing to the visable micro regulator. Here is a Pl that is in my collection from Central City. (Syracuse, NY)

Interesting, Ed. It looks like Central City made a conscious decision to go with Arabic hour chapters rather than the more common Roman.
They were happy with the closed Morning Glory hands and minutes track.
kh

Here's a low production,low jewel count 930 s/n 19445=1895 16 jewels.
Roger

Dial

I just got the old style regulator on a 928 sn#23163. It seems to be the last run of this type regulator. Whether the entire run of 200 was this type of regulator or whether they switched in the middle of the run I do not know. I have sn#26825 which is the run after this run of 928's and it has the newer regulator.

Here's a private label 929 s/n 17246=1896 15 jewels
hunter

Movement
G.C.Chapman
Fairmont,Minn.

Really nice one Roger

Thanks Kevin. It is now in a hunter case.

Just got this one Grade 930 S/N 4171=1894 16 jewels
Runs very good and accurate. I think it is from the first run of 930"s.