Internet Horology Club 185
Is this "Patek Phillipe & Co Geneva" correct?

This topic can be found at:
https://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2291010082/m/8441033592

December 18, 2007, 13:20
Lindell V. Riddle
Is this "Patek Phillipe & Co Geneva" correct?

Some folks in Georgia sent us these interesting images.

This watch is a family heirloom of theirs and they would like to know all they can about it including some idea of value. So look over the images that follow and let us know what you see here, your assistance and opinions will be greatly appreciated. Smile


This dial looks like those on many other Swiss watches...


December 18, 2007, 13:20
Lindell V. Riddle

Outside, one of those nearly impossible to read fancy monograms on the front and what I would perceive to be a coat-of-arms on the back with "Duris Non Francor" beneath. Now this is where I realize we're going to need help in sorting it all out. Wink


Interesting engraving on both front and back of the case...


December 18, 2007, 13:20
Lindell V. Riddle

Moving to the cuvette we find "No. 34449 and George W. Webb Baltimore" inscribed along with (drum-roll) the "Patek Phillipe & Co Geneva" name around outer edge. Number 34449 appears on each of the case components.


So now, the investigation becomes even more interesting...


December 18, 2007, 13:20
Lindell V. Riddle


The case has 18K markings and there is a heavy look to it...


December 18, 2007, 13:20
Lindell V. Riddle


And finally, let us know what you all think of the movement...


December 18, 2007, 13:20
Lindell V. Riddle

There is plenty to look at on this one let's hear your thoughts!

Wink

December 18, 2007, 13:40
Gene Piano
Straight as an arrow, many Patek Philippes were cased this way with unsigned dials, usually in the earlier serial numbers, the case number usually matches the movement number which you can get by pulling the dial. Geno
December 18, 2007, 15:50
Jerry Freedman
I am not so sure. Patek usually marks their movments. Why is the dial blank. If Webb is the jeweller, why no name on dial or movement? Also, that is not the way Patek puts it's name on cases. I would not pay Patek prices for this watch.
December 18, 2007, 18:31
Gene Piano
I have had many Pateks, The early ones were unsigned dial and movement and usually signed cuvette like this one or the Patek signature in Script in the middle. Patek most certainly did not sign all their dials and movements, as I said I have had many like this one, all original. Geno
January 03, 2008, 10:23
Reid Zeigler
I have an unsigned Patek as well. It's been recased and the only serial number is on the perimeter of the movement. It was probably originally in a gold case that was melted down. The movement has some Patek hallmarks like the wolf's tooth winding and gold jewel jewel holding cap on the escape wheel. There's almost certainly a serial number under the dial or on the perimeter (sometimes scratched lightly in) and you can compare to the list in Shugart's guide to check the approximate date. Nice watch!!


Reid
February 17, 2008, 16:51
Lindell V. Riddle

Thanks Everyone!

The owner of this watch sent has us a behind the dial movement image which is attached below. From the looks of it I see the confirmation of number 34449 as found on the case. Number 2442 is also around the edge. Anyone know if that signifies a date or model number? You comments and observations are welcome.

Checking the "Complete Guide to Watches" 2008 Edition, Page 536 this one is evidently from around the 1870 time-frame. Values there on Page 538 apparently reflect a $1,500 to $2,700.00 price range. I do not know if that is realistic so any further estimation of approximate value would be greatly appreciated.

Lindell


It looks like we find 34449 stamped under the dial as well...


February 17, 2008, 20:49
James H. Miller
hi lindell hows your cold? thats a nice patek its so hard to get info on them. i would place the value a little higher then that i find that book to be somewhat low on there patek prices. i think the hunter case raises the price a good bit too.
February 18, 2008, 21:33
Lindell V. Riddle

Thanks Jim,

The "flu" is tough to shake in our climate, not an easy time for us.

About your estimate, you are probably right. In fact the 18K case is most likely worth the "low-book" or more all by itself. With gold at record highs gold cases will increasingly be premium items in the years to come!

Lindell

Wink