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I can't remember what the name of this type of dial is, can someone help please?
Is there a source for the information about this type of dial?
I did read a large article about these a year ago, and can't find anything on it now.
Is it an ARROW (hands) dial?
Well, I knew that! hehehe I meant the arrow type numbers. They do have a name, but lost the old info. on it. aren't these(Arabic Maybe?)
FORGET the Origin, what about the arrow numbers?
I don`t have a clue about them other than what Jerry suggested. But they aren`t arabic. Arabic refers to our common everyday numerals, i.e. 0,1,2,3...
From somewhere deep in my brain comes the word "cuniform". Could this be the style?
Absolutely! Your Right, it is. You are so smart!
But that's not quite it.
I read about why this dial is so imortant, and rare, if it met the requirements. I only got this one, the other day, because I remembered what I had read. After tearing up my home, I still can't find where it's written.
The Article was impressive, so I thought that members would maybe remember seeing it, or one of the "Watch Brains" here, would remember it.
The other reason is, I tried to get one on ebay back then, and they sold for over $100.00 for just one dial, beat up!
I never did get one then. Of course, they had no foreign language on them, but most had no writing on them either. Some did.
I believe they were ONLY on OLD watches, and only porcelain.
Any history at all would be great, or if someone can point me in a direction, that I can search out, that would be wonderful too.
I know it had something to do with ARROW....
I think I have read somewhere that dials like this were put on watches made for export to Turkey. I probably should say Ottoman Empire since this is what it was called before World War I and it included many of the current Arab nations such as Saudi Arabia. The Ottoman Empire was allied with Germany and Austria I think. The aftermath of the Armistice of November 11, 1918 led to a great change in historical boundaries.
The numerals are a stylized form of the numbers once used in Turkey and still used in the Arab-Iranian world today. This style was used in Turkey until 1928 when the reformer, Ataturk, decreed that the Perso-Arabic script was to be replaced by a modified form of the Latin alphabet.
While you could call these dials “Perso-Arabic”, I would call them “Turkish Dials” because that’s what we western collectors have been calling them for the past 100+ years. There is no point in getting things confused.
Another reason to call them Turkish is due to the history of the Arab world at that point in time. Until World War One, Arabia was ruled by the Ottoman Empire. Any watches sold in this large market were entering Turkish territory. For example, one of these Turkish watches in my collection is marked Bagdad on the dial, which at that time was a part of the Turkish Ottoman empire, Iraq did not exist. Thus, you might as well call these Turkish dials. One exception is Iran, which was never part of the Ottoman empire. Billodes brand watches were also sold there, sometimes with an image of the monarch or Shaw on the dial. These are nice dials, but the watches are usually on the cheap side.
I would not call such watches “rare.” As with all watches it depends upon what watch the dial is attached to. An early chain-drive triple cased watch by a famous English maker would be a great find. On the other hand, most Turkish dial watches are Swiss made and quit cheap. The movements are most often made under the Billodes trade name. They have glass cap jewels to make them look nice to unsophisticated buyers. Key wind Billodes watches were sold in the middle east until around 1914 or so.
The writing on the dial is most likely the name and address of the seller. Sometimes, the writing on the dial can indicate railroad or other Turkish Government ownership.
Watches like this were carried for the usual commercial reasons. Also watches were carried for religious purposes, so that a follower of Islam would know when to start his four daily prayers. I have seen them attached to a string of prayer beads, the watch at one end and a compass on the other so that the faithful could direct his prayers in the direction of Mecca.
For more info on the Turkish language, try this cite:
I did a quick search on "turkish dial" online Bulletin index and turned up 3 citatations. When I tried the search with one word "turkish" and got 118 citations, so there has been some information published in the Bulletin.
Interesting posting. Greg. Can I just add that traditionally, Muslims pray five times a day, not four: dawn, mid-day, mid-afternoon, sunset, and nightfall.
Thank you ALL so very much.
I'm going to look through some of the information that I have pulled up, and check out the Bulletins too.
I knew you "Brains" could help!
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