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Standard Watch Co., New York NOT NYS. Appears to be Swiss made (Auguste Saltzman)? "Click" to Login or Register 
IHC Member 1610
Picture of Harry J. Hyaduck Sr.
posted
Standard Watch Co., New York not a New York Standard. It is a higher grade than NYS either 11 or 15j (?). Appears to be European made for American Private Label. Can't find the watch and can't find any info on Standard Watch Co., New York.

I found a picture of a very similar Swiss Auguste Saltzman movement. Let me know what you think although mine would be a lesser grade.The curious thing is Auguste Saltzman made watches for the American market and all of his were mounted in 18k gold cases. Mine is a recase. See Below.

Thanks,
Harry

 
Posts: 3849 | Location: Georgia in the USA | Registered: September 22, 2011
IHC Member 1555
posted
Hello Harry,

Ehrhardt & Meggars mention this Company in one of their Publications. They seem to purchase a myriad of American & Swiss Manufacturer's, some of the American ones were Waltham, Illinois, Hampden & New England Watch Co and then the Swiss ones such as I.W.C and others.

They even had an Illinois "Bunn" Model under the "Acme Standard Watch Co" Pittsburgh PA. Also, a stack of other names and also marked not just Pittsburgh but New York as well.

As you said, effectively a Private Label, probably a Jobber or some Jeweler/Selling House. The New York marked ones seem to appear less then the Pittsburgh PA signed onesSmile
 
Posts: 2173 | Location: Gladstone in Australia | Registered: January 14, 2011
IHC Member 1610
Picture of Harry J. Hyaduck Sr.
posted
Thanks Bila,

That helps a lot, thank you. I will try to check IWC to see if they may have made this watch. About all I think I know is that it was not made in America. Looks like a decent quality watch though. No super high grade but decent. Can't tell how old it is but may have come out before the micro regulators were popular.

Harry
 
Posts: 3849 | Location: Georgia in the USA | Registered: September 22, 2011
IHC Member 1555
posted
It will be interesting when you pull the dial Harry, my bet is on a 11 jewel movement. I read somewhere that the Standard watch Co had Swiss 11 jewel movements with their name onSmile
 
Posts: 2173 | Location: Gladstone in Australia | Registered: January 14, 2011
IHC Life Member
posted
Looks like a Swiss Fake to me. The dash between New York is the giveaway. New-York was just one of the many ways Swiss Fakes were imported.
 
Posts: 1078 | Location: Ticonderoga, New York USA | Registered: March 01, 2008
IHC Member 1610
Picture of Harry J. Hyaduck Sr.
posted
I think it is 11 jewel also Bila but I will not know until I pull the dial. Roger I know it is not a Swiss Fake. Swiss fake are made to resemble American made watches to fool American's into believing they are buying an American made watch. This watch does not even come close to resembling an American made 18s watch. The jewels are real. As Bila indicated I do believe it is a Swiss import for the Standard Watch Co. of New York. Very few Standard Watch Co. movements have been seen. This is not an attempt to copy the American watch manufacturer "New York Standard". No one would attempt to copy one of the lowest grade American Watches. I do believe this is a Swiss movement. It looks a lot more like a Longines or IWC than it does an American design.

Thanks for y'alls input,
Harry
 
Posts: 3849 | Location: Georgia in the USA | Registered: September 22, 2011
IHC Life Member
posted
Not all Swiss Fakes were made to resemble American counterparts and some were in fact decent quality watches with real jewels. Maybe it isn't a Swiss Fake, but IMHO putting a close to American name on the movement with the New-York gives me reason to believe it is.
 
Posts: 1078 | Location: Ticonderoga, New York USA | Registered: March 01, 2008
IHC Member 1555
posted
In my opinion for what it is worth this is not a Swiss Fake example. It is a genuine make made for a Selling House or the like , so effectively a P/L (private label). As I said in an earlier post they were buying from Manufacturer's in American as well as Switzerland.

I take it Harry that you have noticed the upper 3rd wheel jewel, that is a replacement as it should have been rubbed in not fitted with the setting, judging by tarnish probably sometime ago, still a nice watch thoughSmile
 
Posts: 2173 | Location: Gladstone in Australia | Registered: January 14, 2011
IHC Life Member
posted
I have an 18s watch with Grangin Watch Co. New-York on the movement. It is either 9 or 11 jewels, probably 9 that is a Swiss Fake. It is not the typical fake jeweled Swiss Fake and is actually a pretty decent looking movement. Another giveaway is an uncut balance wheel or notched and not cut all the way thru. Can't tell from Harry's picture but would be interesting to know if the balance is cut on his. On the Grangin I have the balance is uncut and the balance screws are evenly spaced around the perimeter of the balance wheel.

 
Posts: 1078 | Location: Ticonderoga, New York USA | Registered: March 01, 2008
IHC Member 1610
Picture of Harry J. Hyaduck Sr.
posted
Hi Bila and Roger,

Bila I had noticed the third wheel jewel was larger and raised. Not being able to compare it with another movement I was unsure whether is was made this way or a replacement. I am not good enough to tell so I will take your word for it as you are a lot more knowledgeable than I.

Roger I agree your is a Swiss Fake. It is a copy of a Hampden. I have seen quite a few Hampden imitations like yours with different names on them. Yours is a very nice looking Swiss Fake and appears to be in great condition. I believe Bila is correct that this is a Swiss watch made for export to a customer in America. I have another English or Swiss made watch that is made for a customer in America. It is in the orange 1980 Price Indicator book by Roy Ehrhardt there is a section on Swiss fakes that your watch falls into and the next section (page 23) is Swiss & English Contract watches. Upper left is P. S. Barton which you may think is a Swiss Fake for P.S. Bartlett. It is not P.S. Barton was a jeweler or something that imported English watches and sold the under his brand "The American Watch" with his name on it. I have one. Also on this page are 2 examples of "Standard Watch Co, NY" and one Standard which I believe is short for Standard Watch Co. There are nine watches on this page and all nine are either Swiss or English watches made for the American market.

Now if that is not confusing enough I have several Mermod Jaccard & Co. of St. Louis, Mo. watches. MJ&C of Saint louis was a high end jeweler. I have 2 Hampdens, and 2 Hamiltons marked "Standard" "St. Louis, MO." on them No reference to the manufacturer at all on any of them.

So in my mind you have at least 3 categories you can place these watches that are not marked with the correct manufacturers name, 1) Swiss Fake which was made to deceive the American customers, 2) English and/or Swiss manufactured watches that are not intended to deceive the American market but to sell to the American jeweler or company to resell to the customer to represent there company or jewelry store much as a private label watch that was made in the U.S., and 3) the private label watch which is made by the American watch manufacturer only the name on the watch reflects the jeweler not the manufacturer. So #2 and #3 are essentially the same with only the country of origin being the only difference.

Harry
 
Posts: 3849 | Location: Georgia in the USA | Registered: September 22, 2011
IHC Member 1555
posted
You pretty much hit it on the head Harry, except about the bit on more knowledgeable (lol). I would also categorize the genre as you have in that last post.

Just on another note, not all Swiss Fakes have un-cut balances, the Dominion Watch Co for example, was trade marked to Dreyfus, Marx & Cie. La Chaux-de-Fonds (mentioned in Pritchard) and sold some watches that were look alike Model 1857's and other Waltham looking types.

Also, we must be aware that not all un-cut balances appear on Swiss fake watches, prime examples are Cheshire & New York Standards both American made. So each example has to be accessed on its own merits or lack off.

Mechanically some were of very good quality except for the poor gilding. I have one (Dominion Watch Co) with good finishing on internal parts, 15 jewels in ruby and with a tru-cut expansion balance and gold balance screws.

This Company (Dominion Watch Co) was known for importing look alike American watches and saying in their advertising that the watches were actually American made (which they definately are not).

When I get a chance I will post a photoSmile
 
Posts: 2173 | Location: Gladstone in Australia | Registered: January 14, 2011
IHC Member 1610
Picture of Harry J. Hyaduck Sr.
posted
Thank you Bila! I will continue to try a solve the mystery of the manufacture. I think I have figured out the Longines but just hoping someone can verify my finding on it being a caliber 21.59 Chronometer. I am pretty sure I am right on that one.

Harry
 
Posts: 3849 | Location: Georgia in the USA | Registered: September 22, 2011
IHC Member 1610
Picture of Harry J. Hyaduck Sr.
posted
Auguste Saltzman???

 
Posts: 3849 | Location: Georgia in the USA | Registered: September 22, 2011
IHC Member 1610
Picture of Harry J. Hyaduck Sr.
posted
Mine.

 
Posts: 3849 | Location: Georgia in the USA | Registered: September 22, 2011
IHC Member 1555
posted
Very similar ebauche's Harry but probably not SaltzmanSmile
 
Posts: 2173 | Location: Gladstone in Australia | Registered: January 14, 2011
IHC Life Member
posted
Interesting discussion and makes me rethink some of my opinions on what Swiss Fakes entail.
 
Posts: 1078 | Location: Ticonderoga, New York USA | Registered: March 01, 2008
IHC Member 1610
Picture of Harry J. Hyaduck Sr.
posted
Dang thank you Bila!

Roger yes I think you may want too. You may have some English or Swiss made watches that are not Swiss Fakes but are indeed English or Swiss private labels or jobber watches made for American wholesalers to resale under their name to the general public. I know Waltham in particular and maybe others supplied export models to England, Central and South America. Whalthams, Bond St. and Hill Street and their Traveler brand were all for the English market. So only makes since that the Swiss and English would supply us.

Harry
 
Posts: 3849 | Location: Georgia in the USA | Registered: September 22, 2011
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