I acquired an English,verge escapement, fusee pocket watch. It is in a sterling silver paired case with hallmarks showing London and the code for the year 1828. It is in great condition with only a couple of nicks to the outer case. The dial is almost pristine and the movement is clean. Best of all, it runs.

When I got it, it would only run for an hour or two. I applied my trusty Liquid Bearings synthetic oil to every friction point I could see. Then I removed the dial and hands and took the movement out of the case. I oiled the gears and pivot points on the top of the movement and then I released the tension on the mainspring by loosening the pawl. I then managed to completely remove the chain and discovered through research that it had been installed backwards. I hooked the proper end to the mainspring barrel and wound the chain around it by turning the arbor with a key. I then attached the other end to the fusee and turned it about a quarter turn to take up some slack. Then I tensioned the mainspring 3 or 4 clicks and locked down the pawl. I wound the watch fully and now it ran for the full length of the chain with one small problem.

When the mainspring hook unwinds to the point where the chain coming from the fusee has to pass under it, it tries to wind on top of it and the watch stops. If I use a toothpick to move the chain under the hook and initial wind, the watch will run for the rest of the chain with no problem. If I only wind the watch to the point where the chain is passing under the initial wind, it will run perfectly. Is there a way I can avoid the jam that occurs?

I took some pictures with my phone. They're okay but I'll try to get some better ones with my camera. The maker's name on the movement is Frankcom and underneath that it says BATH. Believe it or not, it also stays within 30 seconds of the correct time in a day.

You are flirting with disaster! I'm impressed that you have done all this. BUT.... NEVER oil the gear train! And an oiling should only follow a proper cleaning. Also your choice of oil is questionable at best. I'm not clear on what you are experiencing with the chain, but if installed correctly there should be no problem, so something is amiss. Dave

Just how am I "flirting with disaster"? I did pretty much the same thing I did with my antique pendulum mantel clocks and it worked great for them too.

Train wheels should never be oiled! If you don't believe me get ANY book on watch or clock repair and check for yourself. Oil will mix with dust and form abrasives which destroy parts. You have to deal with this in pivots (which is why clocks often have to be bushed) but the gear teeth and pinions do NOT require oil!

www.fixmypocketwatch.com

Okay, but my 1842 weight driven ogee clock has instructions to oil the escapement arms (which automatically oils the teeth of the escape wheel) it's pivot point, and the spot where the pendulum arm contacts the crutch. I have two other clocks that are spring driven mantel clocks and I have oiled the pivots, pinions, escapement, etc. as well as I could without taking the movements apart. I also oiled the surfaces that trigger the hour striking mechanism. The oil I used actually softens and removes any old congealed oils and the dirt just seems to float away and can be then wiped off. Examining the pivot points and gears now shows them perfectly clean. I just don't have the confidence to take things completely apart and reassemble them correctly so I do what I can short of that. It may not be technically the right or accepted way to do it, but so far it has worked for me in getting old movements to run. If there are actual problems that require disassembly, I send those out. I believe that the main reason why old clocks have to bushed is that they have been run without sufficient lubrication of the pivots. Not because of dirt sticking to the oil.

I also don't run them constantly. They may run for a couple of days or even a week and then sit for months before being wound up again. It also is remarkably dust free here. I have lived in places where you could dust every day and see an accumulation. Here you can let things sit for months and not see anything. Now that we have a dog though, her hairs are everywhere. She's a Yellow Lab and the saying is true about labs. "Brush one, get one free".

Charles Frankcom is listed in Baillie at Bath with dates: Late 18c-1819. According to Loomes, there was a partnership with Alex Mowatt, 1810-35. Premises were at 7 Quiet Street. They also made clocks of excellent quality.

In June 1834 whilst staying in London, Frankcom had a notice of thanks (to his neighbours) printed in The Times, in which he speaks of an accident and his property being mostly saved – probably a reference to a fire. He was lodged at The Horn Coffee House in Doctors Commons, 10 Godliman Street, off Carter Lane on the south side of St Paul's Churchyard. The Horn Tavern, as the late 18th century pub was known, is best known as being mentioned in Charles Dickens' The Pickwick Papers – Mr Pickwick sent his friends to the tavern to fetch a bottle of wine for his supper, he being incarcerated in the Fleet Prison at the time.

I got another one. It has the table lever escapement this time and is in a Hunter case. I didn't have an 18s Hunter nor a lever fusee so it fits both niches. It's thinner than the verge watch and it's in great condition with almost no wear to the case other than a few small dings. The dial is absolutely perfect and the gold hands are also very good. It runs 30 hours on a full wind and keeps excellent time. The John Edwards, Liverpool markings are also on the movement. It is hallmarked as Sterling Silver with a London town mark and the date code for 1865. The pendant and bow are also hallmarked. It's fully jeweled with a diamond end cap on the balance. It must have been a high end watch in it's day.

No oil has been used on this one.

Movement A little blurred sorry.

It has the dust cap which was removed for the picture.

As you’ve no doubt discovered, ‘John Edwards’ isn’t listed as a Liverpool/late 19C watchmaker by Baillie or Loomes. It’s possible that this is a retailer’s branding – you could try https://liverpoolhistorysociet...tions.wordpress.com/ - in order to research that.

You may already be aware that ‘John Edwards’ was a sub-brand used by the Tobias firm for its lower quality Liverpool-made products. I believe some people owning Edwards watches don’t like this idea as it’s been said that this name was applied to Tobias ‘3rd grade’ watches. However, I have found a reference which confirms the usage, but links the name to ‘2nd grade’ products, which is more palatable for an owner! I also think that it may be that some examples of ‘John Edwards’ are better quality than the standard output of some of the contemporary Liverpool makers.

I wasn't aware of any of that since I have none of those reference materials. What is your reference confirming the connection to Tobias? I can't find anything that's more than conjecture and rumor. Even the Wm. Robinson connection seems to be under debate. From what I've found, however, the large jewels are similar to what was used in Tobias watches.

Would a "3rd grade" watch be fully jeweled with a diamond end cap like mine? Would even a "2nd grade" one be?

I was referring to a report of a talk given by Alan Treherne in February 1987 at a meeting of the Northern Section of the Antiquarian Horological Society. He had been in the U.S. the previous year, researching various matters, including the importation of watches made by M Tobias & Co. In the course of this he learned: "A letter from Tobias to a Baltimore wholesaler revealed that second grade watches were named Robinson or Edwards."

Donald - with your interest in English watchmaking in the 19th century, I'm sure you'd benefit from becoming a member of the AHS - have a look at the Society's website: http://www.ahsoc.org/

Regarding the gradings, as with many aspects of the old English watch trade, it was not especially well regulated and documented. Specifications changed all the time and neat definitions of models/grades often just don't exist. Proper processes and conformity was better done by the U.S. makers, reflecting the much more industrialised approach practised there.

Thank you very much for the information. Knowing that the watch was made by the Tobias company is interesting. Considering it's condition after 150 years, I'm more than pleased with it whatever grade it was considered to be in it's day. Maybe the solid balance wheel denotes a grade under top drawer? I read that the higher end Tobias watches sometimes had a compensated balance.

Donald, Regarding oiling of trains: All clock maintenance and repair standards are that (1) oil should only be applied to clean surfaces. (2) oil should be applied to those pivots which are rotational, but not to those which oscillate (i.e.) do NOT oil the pivots on the anchor arbor. (3) oil should be placed on sliding surfaces (this would include the impulse (angled)faces of the escapement, and possibly some of the strike actuating parts). It would NOT include the "teeth" of the wheels or the leaves (or trundles, depending on type) of the pinon. The wheel teeth do not slide against the pinon leaves, because gear teeth are formed such that they present a curved surface (involute spiral) to the curve of the pinon leaf. All forces between well-formed gears and pinons are straight through the materials perpendicular to a line of tangent at the point of contact. Because in rotational gearing the line of tangent is constantly moving, the force is constantly straight through the materials, and there is no sliding friction or moment of force.(A clock is NOT comparable to an automobile transmission, where the gears are cut such that there is axial force, as well as radial.)

I'll keep that in mind for the future.