This is my latest purchase, but I could use some help with information, it's a Verge movement in an unmarked silver single case, doesn't look to me like there ever was a pair case. I know it is early based on the pillars but I don't know how early, and the dial has a bump under each number which also suggests age to me. The balance bridge suggests to me it is not English, along with the "R" and "A" on the regulator. Originally I thought it may be a "dutch forgerie", but no makers mark is present on the plate. I hope to get a closer look at the movement and under the dial in the next few days. Can anyone give me some help with the origin of this watch? And, I'm sure I should know this but I don't, what are the screws I have circled for? Do they affect the timekeeping or running of the watch? Thanks,
-Joe

1st Image

These are the screws I don't know the function of, any help would be appreciated, I'm sure it's something I should know, but I don't.

Another image of the movement

Hi Joe

Nice purchase

Your watch is a continental verge fusee made close to 1800.
The movement is the 'standard verge' made by Japy freres from Beaucourt (France). They were the first that went into the mass production of watches (100 000 in 1801). Ebauches and finished movements were cased in France and Switzerland. If your case has no marks it is very likely swiss made.

The two screws are for adjusting the drop and depth of the crown wheel (escape wheel).

Regards
Gerald

Thanks Gerald, if you don't mind me asking where do you look to find information like this, it might mean I have to ask for help from you and others less often if I knew where to start. Thanks for the information.
-Joe

Interesting watch!, what purpose would the drop and depth of the crown wheel have had ?
Best Regards
Francesco.

Joe

Dont't mind to ask. My information regarding old european watches is mainly from german or french sources ( including horological journals) and the internet. The problem or my advantage is to have a special search method that brings in the informations fast (comparable to Tom Browns census and newspaper searches regarding persons).

Verge escapements are the first and very primitive form of watch and clock escapements. They totally lack of isochronism which is countered by the use of fusees to equalize the mainspring power.
Next thing is they are frictional escapements with recoil (opposed to the free lever escapements)
The contrate wheel(with the upright teeth) and the verge and balance wheel have fixed positions.
The crown or escape wheel is adjustable. With this adjustments one tries to get the optimum of transmission of power (impulse; amplitude) combined with a minimum of recoil and a smooth and safe working of the escapement.
One adjustment (up and down) is contrate wheel <-> escape wheel; the other (in and out) is the escape wheel <-> pallets contact. Both adjustments are not seperate concerning their effects. (kind of a bit tricky trial and error procedure)

Regards
Gerald

Interesting, thanks Gerald.

Yes it is interesting, hopefully over time I'll begin to be able to research more quickly. Do you have a picture of another Japy standard verge movement? I had a look on the internet but couldn't find a match. This is what I found under the dial, do you recognise the U mark? Thanks,
-Joe

Closer view of the "U" mark.

Joe

No clue on the U mark

The movements that were marked 'Japy' are from later times. Those earlier verges are unmarked or have a 'watchmaker' signature om the movement or on the dial.

One example I found on our pages:

verge fusee

most of the fake Breguet, L'Epine or Le Roy watches are from the same origin

Your pictures show the first indications of mass-production : two holes for the pivots are on arms screwed on the dial plate; the earlier 'hand made' watches have circular markings from calipers to mark the location of the holes before drilling.

The picture shows some ebauches of the type or style 'Berthoud' from Japy Freres

Regards
Gerald

Ok thank you for all your help Gerald, so would yu stick to your estimate of around 1800 or would you go closer to Don's estimate of 1770 - 1790 for the similar watch in the post you linked to? Thanks again,
-Joe

Joe

Case and dial are indications to date it closer to 1800

Regards
Gerald

Ok, Thanks for all your help
-Joe