We get a number of eMails with watch and clock related questions.

Usually I'll spend a day each week answering the ones I can and sending along others to those with expertise in a particular area I might be unfamiliar with. Now and then I'll post a question about one and today I thought others might find this particular one of more than passing interest.

It has a Swiss movement, something I know little about so hopefully someone else might be able to fill in the blanks. We'll begin with the watch, clearly English which is displayed in the original presentation box and you'll see it has quite a bit of interesting information provided along with it.

Here is part of what we originally received...

I have a watch, still in it's original box. I know nothing about watches but I believe this is a 'half hunter'? i.e it has a small "window" about 12mm in the outer case. This has the hours marked around it in roman numerals but the main face has standard numbering The box, on the inside of the lid has W.J. Carroll Makers to the Admiralty followed by the address 20 and 21 London Street EC3. This is repeated on the watch face which also has a small second dial. The watch is in immaculate condition but has no main glass. It is gold but has a very dark colouring similar to what I believe is nowadays called "Rose Gold" but it may just be ageing discouloration.

The watch is inscribed Presented to J Young by West Ham United Football Co. Ltd. to Commemmorate Promotion to the Football League 1923. (this was also the year West Ham reached the final of the first FA Cup to be held at Wembley Stadium). I purchased the watch along with other Football memorabilia and had largely forgotten about it until recently and have become interested to find out more about it. If you are able to shed any light at all on the watch or the makers I would greatly appreciate your assistance. If you have no information could you point me in the right direction? Best regards, Steve

I responded with what I could and now ask that others share what they can.


English Demi-Hunter is a nice example...

The owner then sent along this additional information...

Hi Lindell, Thanks again for your help. It's fascinating starting to get some info. First off the main glass got broken when the small crystal you mentioned fell out and was put back upside down which of course pressed into the main glass when I shut the lid. Due to hamfistedn attempts such as that I was a bit reluctant to open the back to view the workings as you suggested but following a good inspection with a magnifying glass I put my crow bar away and eased it open. I do still have the crystal by the way.

Inside the back outer lid is the following. An oval with BB inside, a vertical rectangle with 9 inside, a shield shape with what looks like 3 heads inside, a square with a fancy looking W shape(may not be a W ), a rectangle with .375 in it and below everything else the number 2325.

On the pendant below the winding knob is BB plus the 9 and .375 and same on the chain ring. Inside the main lid is 9 then.375 BB and 2325 Around the workings is Paxus Safety Barrel 21 Jewels Swiss Made. By the big 'wheel' is 20318 and nearby a 2 and a 5 and also the 9 .375 2325 and BB
I have measured the watch at 50mm diameter and the winding knob is an additional 13mm and the ring for the chain is 18mm-diameter. I really appreciate your help. Steve


Interesting dial and unusual double-tulip hour hand...

I suspect the '9' and ',375' both indicate the case material is 9k gold, which was ofen used in British-made gold items.

The double hour hand is typical for a demi-hunter to show a "tip" when the cover is both closed and open.

Football is really Soccer, of course.

Something wrong here. The hour hand second spade does not show when the case is closed. I have never seen a demi-hunter where the seconds bit shows through when the case is closed. This is some kind of a combination, and I doubt if the movement and case started life together!

I see the second spade in the picture with the cover closed as it should be and I have had several and seen others where the seconds dial is partially seen also. I think it is right myself.

I agree with Jerry, I have a correct 18K demi hunter, both hands are doubled spaded,( edit opps no..) no seconds.

I have seen a few like this and wondered if they were re-cased. Lindell does the hallmark date come close to matching 1923?

Hey Stephen can you post a picture of yours, curious never remember seeing a double spade on minute hand. I is a learning here. My thoughts are if both were double spaded it would be hard to figure out the time, where as this one and others I have seen, with just a quick glance you know the spade is the hour and the straight is the minute.

Hi Robert, sorry for taking so long to reply, I am over worked at present.

I will post some pictures later tonight or tomorrow. I have to say at 41 you would think my memory would still serve me well. Nope. Took a look at mine, one double spade and the minute hand is more arrow like then spaded, still,
pictures to follow.

The standard hands on a demi-hunter have the double tip on the hour hand and the minute hand has a diamond end that narrows going into the diamond at the position of the opening edge. The diamond itself is hidden by the front cover.

Since both hands are the same length when the cover is closed, they must have different shapes to tell them apart.

West Ham football team have a lot of supporters even in this little village. It is a London team of course and presently in The Premier League,though for how long who knows. Nice watch, Yes 9 carat Gold,Need to see Hallmarks to date it, Looks right to me. Regards, Ged.

pictures...

more...

last..

Nice Watch Stephen Don't worry about memory I am same age and my kids are always saying my memory is going. LOL OF coarse to them I am real old anyway.

Thanks for taking the time to offer some comments re the watch I have. I have tried to find out something about the actual makers but they seem to be non existent nowadays, nothing in the net about them at all nor in any phone directories etc. Has anyone come across other watches by WJ Carroll? Thanks Steve Cooper

Steve,
As W J Carroll was a Watchmaker to the Admiralty, why don’t you look on the web for National Maritime Museum in London and the Guildhall Library London and send them an e-mail, they may be some help.

Jim Carroll

For what it's worth, here's Tony Mercer's entry in his book "Chronometer Makers of the World":

quote:

Carroll, W.J. (AM) 2-day, pocket instruments. N: 152374 (pocket).

The A means Maker to the Admiralty, M means a maker (as opposed to just a retailer), and N means attributed instrument numbers. Not much help; unlike most of his entries it doesn't give dates, address(es), or history.

Norman

Thanks for the help and suggestions everyone. A computer problem has caused a delayin answering sooner and may actually precipitate the sale of the watch but it has been enjoyable finding out something about it as it's the historical side of these things that really interest me. All the best, Steve.