Here is a Benson that I have.
It has a center seconds hand with a slide to stop and start it.
Does that make it a chronograph?

It looks like it has been recased as there are a couple of case screw indentations on the case rim. However, I have it on opinion from a very excellent US watchmaker who opened it up that he didn't think it had in fact been recased. He said, without elaborating, that the way the movement was built and loaded into the case, it would have been too much work to have justified a recase job for a watchmaker.

Looking in the Complete Guide to...on Page 475 there is a similar Benson listed as a 20 jewels, 3/4 plate freesprung. I don't know what the meaning is of "ca. 1590" that appears under the photo. Can somebody clarify?

Finally this watch also does not have a regulator - see photo below. Does this mean it is freesprung or has the regulator just been broken off sometime in the past? There is however a scale on the balance cock.

The watch is open faced and is in a 14kt gold filled case.

Is this watch in the same category as the listing in the Book....valued at $1300 plus?

Comments please? Thanks.

Next pic

Close up of the regulator that isn't there..

The case inscription.

Please tell me what I've got....

I have owned a number of Benson watches. I have never seen one without the name of the company on the movement. Is this merely a generic movement with a Benson dial? Is it a Swiss movement? Benson did import movements marked for the company!

I don't think it is a chrono. I believe the slide arrangement is called a "stop works" or something similar. The idea was that you set your watch slightly ahead of time and then stop it. When real time catches up you start it again and your watch is set correctly. The example I have is very similar to yours but signed J.WOOD. BURY in a 25 year case. Like yours the case is special to the watch, in my case due to a strange stem wind system.

Irwin,

This appears to be what was called a Center Seconds watch.. The test I use for being a chronograph is when you slide the stop does it stop the whole watch or just the seconds hand..Most good chronographs stop only the seconds hand..and they have a function to reset the seconds hand to the 12..I agree, it most likly was NOT recased.. The xtra mark, who knows..Interesting jeweling, the center wheel is and the lever is not..A 13 jewel, since there is not a 4th wheel..

Here is what a free sprung English watch regulator looks like, from an Usher & Cole.

Doesn't this look rather like what is on the watch, except that mine has a scale on the balance cock?

Irwin,

If you look at the jewel setting in your balance cock, you will see a machined Step.. This was where the regulator was attached..One end of the regulator is a circular spring clip, the other end is a pointer..The hairspring mounting stud appears the same..

Gotcha...Clear..
So it lost its regulator in its past life. I wonder what motivated that?

Fortunately the watch runs perfectly and keeps excellent time. But if I were ever to want to regulate the time, then I gather there would be a difficulty, like having no regulator...

The slide activates the seconds hand only. The outer chapter is marked in fifths of a second. Would this indicate a higher degree of accuracy than the usual watches made for the mass market?

Irwin,

I've quite a few Benson's, but not sure if they're all signed on the movement, I'll check some and come back on that.

The watch will be 'sort of' running as a 'free sprung' type as it is, but unless the hairspring is a breguet ovecoil or a helical type, it won't work the same way at all.
It's possible someone 'pinged off' the lever during a cack handed attempt to regulate the watch at some point - or the lever or curb pins broke and no one had a replacement!

If the watch needs to be regulated, you'll have to do so by unpinning the hairspring at the stud on the cock, moving it accordingly and then re-pinning - you would also then need to move the hairspring collet around the staff to bring the escapement back into beat (just as a free sprung type would be done!).

If you can let me have the dimensions for the diameter of the hub on the balance cock, plus the distance from the edge of the hub to the outer chapter on the 'F-S' scale, I'll check the regulators I've got here for something suitable and send you one. (I have boxes full of them)!
Just let me know if there are any hassles posting stuff to your neck of the woods (customs etc)!

The lever is small enough but if anyone squeezed the envelope hard enough, they'd be a bit sniffy about a couple of curb pins becoming involuntary body adornments!

Note that the regulator lever for your watch will be a split type, because of the proximity of the hairspring stud the the hub!

I wouldn't say it's been recased, but just from photo's it's hard to be sure.

Ethan,

Any chance of some good close-up shots of the escapement and balance of your Freesprung please?
I have a pre WW1 military freesprung, which is minus its balance, hairspring and lever.

I believe it was in the course of conversion from an English Lever escapement, as it's had a club tooth escape wheel fitted.
John Penny has advised me that this was a common conversion as it was more robust an escapement and easier to maintain than the English Lever type.

I'm trying to get hold of photo's of a few examples so that I can work out the style of the missing bits to stand a chance of rescuing it!

Also, does your watch have an overcoil or helical hairspring?

Any info appreciated!

Best regards

John

John,

I have measured the hub and it is 5mm and from its edge it is another 8mm to the far side of the chapter ring.

However, I have to warn you that you are dealing with a raw novice here, so anything you might send would have to come with full instructions - what to connect and where to connect.

Postage to here would be a non-starter. I can give you an address in Switzerland where I'll be at Christmas.

To cover your postage etc let me know by email how much to send you.

Here is a close up of the business end which I thought might help you to see what is there.

At one time I had an 18 size watch with the Benson name on the dial and movement. But the movement was in fact a product of H. Williamson of Coventry.

Best regards,

Greg

John, I am not sure this will help, but here is a picture of the movement.

Here is another photo. If you need something more specific, let me know and I will try to photo it for you.

Irwin,

Thanks for the dimensions, and apologies for the delay coming back to you - my internet connection has been down a while! (always the way .........)

No prob's being a raw novice, we all were once but I'll be gentle with you ..........

Actually it's no big deal with this type, being a split ring on the lever, it just springs over the edge of the hub.
The main thing to be careful with (besides the risk of it pinging off into the ceiling or never never land), is placing the curb pins either side of the hairspring when fitting it.

What you Will need to be aware of, is that replacing the regulator Could affect the timing of the watch.

As it is now, the balance is using the full amplitude created by the hairspring - in other words, it's vibrating for its whole length right up to where it's pinned on the balance cock.

With the regulator in place, the effective length of the hairspring will be up to the curb pins on the regulator - Not to where it is pinned at present.

Effectively, replacing the regulator lever will shorten the hairspring and make the watch gain because the hairspring will in fact be a tad shorter - and therefore produce a smaller balance amplitude.

You May need to unpin the hairspring and reposition it to work correctly......... but you could get lucky!

I'll sort out the postal address with you when I can confirm I've found a lever.


Ethan,
Thanks for posting the photo's, that is a beautiful Freesprung you have there!

It appears it may be an English Lever escapement, but I can't quite make out the tooth form on the escape wheel - are they a pointed or club tooth form?

I'm actually needing Macro Hi res shots of the balance, hairspring and lever with pallet arm with the watch stopped if you can help?.

What I'd like to do if you don't mind though, is start a new thread on my own Freesprung and continue with it there, as I'm in danger of hi-jacking Irwin's thread here.

Best regards and thanks,

John

I will get you the photos in due course. Unfortunately, the Usher & Cole is with my jeweler, Francois, for a case repair, and he is very slow in getting it back to me. It may take a month or more for me to get you the photos you reqested.

Many thanks Ethan,

No rush, I'm likely to be wielding a zimmer frame before I get this one done!

Will you post a thread on your watch when it returns please?
Freesprung watches don't appear publicly very often for us to admire.

Best regards

John

Irwin,

I've found a regulator lever complete with curb pins that should do the job.
It's 4.7mm inside diameter (enough for it to spring onto your hub), and about 9.5 mm on the arm - but it will shorten.

Some of my watches have regulator arms that overhang the chapter by quite a way anyway, so you'd have to make a judgement call on how it would look.

Rub is, it's got quite a lot of surface rust on it, but it should polish ok (was on a semi complete watch).

I found another half dozen in good polished condition, but they were all the reverse position of the one you need!
I'm sure I've got a box somewhere full of reg's, but not located it yet!

The pic's below should give you some idea of what's missing.

Email me re - where you would like it posted.
Best regards
John

Curb pins.
J.W.

John,

I pretty much followed your description of what I would need to do to install this successfully, however if I may, I would like to go into 'learning mode' and ask the following.

I have a book titled The Watch & Clock Makers Handbook Dictionary and Guide by FJ Britten, edition 1946. I looked up freespring and he defines it as follows,

A balance spring uncontrolled by curb pins. In marine chronometers, pocket chronometers, and generally fine watches in which an overcoil spring is used, the spring and balance are proportioned to give exact time as nearly as possible, and curb pins are dispensed with. Any future alteration in the rate, if such be needed, has then to be made by an expert.

On my Benson (hopefully you can see sufficiently well in the closeup pic I posted above) the spring end does coil over the top of the spring body. I understand that the existence of the hub contradicts the possibility of this having been originally a freesprung. Could it possibly be the case that this watch was made into a freesprung by a later watchmaker using parts from elsewhere?

Sorry, if my question is way off target and shows my ignorance.

I shall email you separately concerning the address etc.

Many thanks and by the way, I want to say how much I am enjoying your explanations and moderation. In the course of a couple of days in the job you have demonstrated a very competent fund of knowledge on things horological.

Regards
Irwin