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Ball Waltham 19 Jewel Question "Click" to Login or Register 
IHC Member 48
Picture of Keith Klimkowicz
posted
Hi All

I just acquired a list of serial numbers for the Webb C. Ball watches. I was going through some of my Ball watches and discovered one that I can not find on the list. This is a Waltham 19j serial number B217592. The list shows B216,201-B218,600 but does not show a 19j Waltham being in that serial number range? Can anyone help explain?

Regards
Keith
 
Posts: 853 | Location: North Ridgeville, Ohio USA | Registered: November 19, 2002
IHC President
Life Member
Picture of Lindell V. Riddle
posted

Keith,

Here are the facts:

Ball-Waltham 16s B216201-B218000 (1,800) 17-21J (ORRS Mixed Run) 1904 production

That means Ball-Waltham numbers B216201 through B218000 will likely be 17 to 21-Jewel movements and to me that "Mixed Run" includes 19-Jewel movements such as yours. In my opinion your movement fits as it should.

The next run of 600 was...

Ball-Waltham 16s B218001-B218600 (600) 16-Jewel (CS Hunter Cased) 1906 Production

Always remember, there was not the kind of clear record-keeping we wish there had been, the runs should be presumed to be mixed runs, this is especially true of ORRS Ball watches, for example that means Brotherhood movements and movements of other jewel counts should be expected to show up within the various ORRS runs, that is normal. Just because we believe a run may be primarily one particular style the blocked numbers were often revised which we find to be a basic truth with all the watch companies.

Hope this helps,

Lindell

Wink
 
Posts: 10552 | Location: Northeastern Ohio in the USA | Registered: November 19, 2002
IHC Vice President
Pitfalls Moderator
IHC Life Member
Picture of Edward L. Parsons, Jr.
posted
As Lin explained, your watch comes from a 1904 "mixed run" of 1800 watches with serial numbers B216201 - B218000. Roy Ehrhardt's list (American Pocket Watches, 1993) specifically shows 17-jewel and 21-jewel models as part of that mixed run, but any open-face ORRS watch in production at the time could have been included.

19-jewel Ball-Wathams had been in production since 1899, so its entirely reasonable to conclude some 19-jewel models were also included in that mixed run (since you have one of them), but just were not annotated in on the list.


Best Regards,

Ed
 
Posts: 6696 | Location: Southwestern Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: April 19, 2004
IHC Member 48
Picture of Keith Klimkowicz
posted
Lin & Ed

Thanks for the information. I understand now how the list is presented.

Regards
Keith
 
Posts: 853 | Location: North Ridgeville, Ohio USA | Registered: November 19, 2002
IHC Member 163
Picture of Mark Cross
posted
How's this for resurrecting a necropost? 11 years later...... Cool

I own a 19j Ball-Waltham 19j I got off the 185 auction that I just LOVE and carry a lot, serial number B217426, that I've found on other listings as being made in 1910. I believe even Ken, who I got it from, thought it was from 1910 in HIS research. (fuzzy memory)

Based on what I just read here, this number falls in that mix run from 1904 which is according to Roy Ehrhardt's list.

Am I deciphering this correctly? Is my ORRS a bit older than I originally thought?

Regards! Mark
 
Posts: 3800 | Location: Estill Springs, Tennessee, USA | Registered: December 02, 2002
IHC Member 1357
posted
Mark, I believe you are deciphering that correctly.
As to whether the information is correct.
I don't know

Roger
 
Posts: 4065 | Location: Carbon, Texas in the USA | Registered: January 24, 2010
IHC Member 163
Picture of Mark Cross
posted
Lol! Yep, I’m in the same boat.

Makes sense being a Waltham Model 1899 movement, but assumptions are dangerous. Wink

Thanks for replying, Roger! Most days I feel alone when I'm in here. Eek

Regards! Mark
 
Posts: 3800 | Location: Estill Springs, Tennessee, USA | Registered: December 02, 2002
IHC Member 1394
posted
Mark,

does your watch have a cap jewel on the escape wheel?? I think that is how the 17 jeweled watches were up-jeweled.
 
Posts: 481 | Location: Arizona in the USA | Registered: March 13, 2010
posted
quote:
Mark,

does your watch have a cap jewel on the escape wheel?? I think that is how the 17 jeweled watches were up-jeweled.


Good evening, (here in the UK).
I have a Ball Waltham serial number B214798. I was told it's year of manufacture was 1905.
This one says 19 JEWEL on the movement but does not have a cap jewel on the escapement.

Regards ..... Gary.
 
Posts: 17 | Location: London in the United Kingdom | Registered: August 12, 2018
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