S/N 29307951 mfd.1936 is this a model 1908 or 1912? I think 1912 also in winding it slips and only runs about 4hrs.although accurately.Needs new mainsping?I think the database is incorrect as it shows this to be grade 1623 mod.1908 21 jewels.Any and all comments welcome.. Regards Roger

bezel off

movt

You have a very nice example of this series. In my Ehrhardt book record, 29307951 was part of assigned sn's 29305001-29310000. This is an early Premium grade 1623 (press gold mtd. jewels) model 1908 started in 1937. Yours is a late s/n, with a total of 20,000 of these ordered for production in 1937-38, and no more ordered for production until 1940, it is very possible that yours was delivered in 1939 1940. The 1912 model has never been clear to me, but production of those looks to be 1935-1936.

David, my Vanguard is serial number 29453956, and from what I've gathered dates to 1937 according to the data lists I've found. Chris Abell has confirmed it is a 1623 grade, but appears from the parts it's more of a model 1912 than a 1908 as the 1908 replacement lever does not fit my watch.

Grades, fit and finishes (even parts!) of these Vanguards seem to wander all over the place during that time period of the mid 30's.

You got a great watch, Roger. Yours even has the Olson regulator, as does mine. I carry mine all the time.

What I've found so unusual is they seem to get such little respect as compared to a Hamilton or Elgin, though they're still considered high end, well made railroad watches.

I carry mine more than my 992Bs

Regards! Mark

David,Mark this is really confusing.Mark if yours dates to 1937 then mine is surely prior to yours as there are 146005 numbers between mine and yours.Does yours have the press in jewels? On page 140 of the fat book it shows mod.1908 with jewels screwed in and a different clik than mine.Like I said confusing. Regards Roger

Mine are press in jewels, yes, and there's no decoration what so ever on the plates as you have on yours.

One thing I've found in researching these different Vanguards from the 30's is no two seem to be alike in appearance. Just little things, but unless you check the number, you'd swear they were decades apart.

My first guess in getting mine was it was from the 50's, but the number proved otherwise.

I sent it to Chris for a new mainspring and requested he replace the lever with his new/improved robust lever since he was going to be under the hood anyway. In trying to do so, he discovered the lever in MY watch was a completely different shape, and was already a robust design. The replacement 1908 lever wouldn't even fit!

That said, though, keep in mind these particular watches were being made in the depths of the Great Depression. I bet they were mixing and matching anything and everything they could to keep product available without the business going under.

Just an opinion, but like I said, I've seen Vanguards from 1936 that were eyecandy, and then find another that was so plain jane it was sad, and from the same year! You'd also see one with the Olson regulator, then one without in the same year as well....the find one a year later, and once again had the Olson regulator. Hit or miss!

Since I'm theorizing, I also wonder if this was known by the railroads too, as if you check your Shugarts in the section of what watches were 'railroad approved' in 1957, CP Rail approved the Vanguard for use, but only serial numbers 29,634.001 and up. No numbers before, so neither your watch or mine was approved on the CP Rail after 1957. No other watch maker had this requirement on serial numbers listed. Was it because there were so many variables from watch to watch it was driving their inspectors crazy?

Do a search on 'Waltham Vanguards' right here on the 185 and you can see for yourself. I've found a lot good comparision photos of these watches to compare with your own watch.

Regards !Mark

Mark upon doing the search I see what you mean.

I have a nice 23j model 1908 Vanguard with wind indicator that I'm going to be tearing into soon. I'd love to get one of these new and improved levers from Chris. I don't see him in this thread so could someone post his name/email?

Chris turned over those lever sales to Lindell, you can read more at;
https://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/f...51042382/m/127106311

Unrelated question:

Do all Vanguard RR or premium grade have diamond center jewels?

RBL