While going through my collection and putting it into a database for quick reference I came to my 19 jewel Bunn 60 HOUR collection and made a very scary and disguntling discovery. Sometimes you take things for granted and this was a clear cut case of this.

The watch shown is clearly marked as a Type I 60 HOUR as you can see as the only designation being the "MOTOR BARREL 60" to claim this. They are also the rarest of the three types. However, the serial number, 4726079 falls into the Type II category listed in the Meggars Illinois book. So is this:

1. A parts watch disguised as a Type I to increase it's value?

2. A missprint in the Meggars book?

3. A fluke of manufacturing error done at the plant during marking and assembly?

I guess I will have to send this to Chris to be verified. If the train bridge numbers do not match I will be very, very, very, dissappointed.

Steve

Steve, Two things poked me in the eye with this nice 19 Jewel motor barreled Illinois watch;

The black lettering on plate with "Bunn" markings vs red lettering on the Motor Barrel markings plate.

The Gold Gooseneck regulator spring.

I hope that it is at least mostly matching s/n's to the barrel plate because that makes it at least original to that rare production. The Regulator can be polished off or replaced.

My "Illinois Bible" says for this s/n;

Also, as this is number 72 of the first run, M-A-Y-B-E the wheel bridge plate is matching but w black lettering. Here's my red lettered 19J bunn to help compare.

Lindell,
Great information and proof that strange things can happen in this wonderful hobby of ours. I also see the Elinvar version has a lower number than the non Elinvar....makes you think that was some what unusual as well.

As for my situation, I am not experienced enough to pull this watch apart to verify the numbers. What I can do is remove the dial and check the numbers on the pillar plate but that is the extent of my expertise. If they do match, and if Dave would be willing to remove the train and balance bridges to check the numbers I would be willing to send it to him postage paid both ways. I am not asking for a free cleaning here, just to try and answer some questions on possibly why some things were done the way they were.

Steve

Well I just removed the dial and the numbers on the pillar plate match so ....so far so good. The mystery continues.

Steve

Steve, I will look at it for you.

Send it to;

Dave Abbe
Glopar Inc.
1025 Vernon Way
El Cajon, CA 92020

any questions? weekdays (619) 596 1660 10 AM - 5 PM Pacific.

Dave,

I appreciate it. I will get it packed up tonite and on its way to you tomorrow.

Steve

Steve, I just finished up the "inspection", and (could not resist the opportunity to ) cleaned up the watch.

It runs pretty accurate for an "old guy"! That is
"plus 0.8 seconds per day". (I have to admit I backed out the mean time screws 1/2 turn before it came into these numbers.)

All the numbers match the main serial number 4726079 from the main barrel cover to the top Barrel arbor pivot jewel plate, and . . .

The (clockwise from upper left) Pillar plate dial side, Bottom of Barrel cover, Balance Cock, Balance wheel, and . . . .

(from upper left) Train Bridge, Pallet fork bridge, motor barrel cover, and motor barrel!

and I had to change only 1 part. When it came, the middle Barrel Bridge screw had been "pre-empted by a case screw, so I replaced it with a bridge screw.

Steve, in short you have a real winner, it's rare, collectible, and runs like a champ!

Fantastic Dave,

The images are awesome. A sigh of releif came over me as I viewed these pictures and saw all the numbers matching but so did a number of questions. I am curious to know if there were some actual Type II's that were numbered prior to this one, a Type I. Just so strange it could be out of sequence but on the other hand, it may very well have been a continuation of the Type I and the Type II started a little later than the Meggars book declared.

Here is possibly another case of the factory using parts that were available to them at the time which would explain the black enamel used in the lettering on the train bridge and red everywhere else or, an error in the Illinois book with which the Type II didn't start until serial number 4726080 or later. Whatever the case, this watch is a complete Type I and in wonderful condition.

As per Dave's request, a donation will be made to IHC185 for his troubles as well as my peice of mind. Just as a side note....this may be the highest numbered Type I known (I am forever the optimist).

Steve

David,

Thanks for some great pictures and info. I had no idea how many parts were numbered, both scratched on and stamped. It's fascinating. Is that common to all pocket watches of the era?

-Tom O.

Thomas,

In my conversation with Dave he seemed amazed that so many of these parts had the serial numbers scratched in including the Barrel arbor pivot jewel plate which is only about 3/16 on an inch in diameter. It may have been an Illinois procedure and might not have been used across the industry.

Steve

That's really great news Steve. "How do YOU spell relief"?!!!!!!!!!

Excellent job David, great cleanup as well, looks like new..
A real nice watch there Steve
Ray

Mike,

Initially I could only think of the worst but after reading Lindells post I did feel a little bit at ease. I think I now spell releif as "Thank you Dave". When a dilema like this turns up it really gives you a little better understanding of how things got done in those days. To me, the mechanical pocket watch was engineering marvel and the quality of craftmanship that went into these 80 plus year old watches is truly amazing. Dave did not do much more that clean it and reassemble it and it runs to within .8 seconds per day and I just love to take the backs off these and watch them go. If a few more of these turn up we can learn even more.

Thanks for all the kudos as well,

Steve

Lindell, Thank you for the extra information. It is interesting that the 12 size 23 Jewel 410 is the most expensive of the bunch. Says something for 1925 watch buying trends.

To "wrap this up", I must admit a somewhat unsettling discovery with Steve's watch. If you note there are some small score marks on the spokes of the center wheel, that are even visible on Steve’s first picture.

Well, after all the fun of cleaning lubing, and timing the watch, I went away, and came back to find the watch had stopped! Very careful inspection showed that the main wheel had been actually bent out of square and also slightly conical at the same time so that every 1/2 hour it would contact the motor drive wheel just above the gear teeth, causing it to stop.

I brought in the "master", Mr. Vladimir on this, and we very carefully trued the main wheel, and re-polished all the pivots, whether they needed it or not.

So now it is happily ticking it's way back to Steve, who I hope will enjoy being it's caretaker and use it from time to time (yes they do like to be carried!)

I had taken a "family portrait" of the wheels, and below is the picture I sent Steve, showing him the mysterious markings that occurred when the wheel had been distorted.