A couple of years ago, a fellow collector and I engaged in a minor debate about a dial for a Peoria watch. The dial in question had no seconds register, and it was the contention of the other collector that it was made that way only for stylistic reasons. My contention was that it was a "conversion" dial, intended to convert a HC movement to fit an OF case, but as the collector in question would not answer the question as to whether the movement to which it was applied was actually a HC or an OF model, the question was never actually resolved.

The reason the other collector was certain he was right and I was wrong, is that both OF and HC dials for Peoria watches have the same dial foot configuration. I was never able to make him understand that although the regular dials would physically interchange on the respective movements, they would end up with the seconds register being in an inappropriate position (i.e. a "sidewinder") when the respective movements were inappropriately cased.

Yesterday, while looking through some Elgin dials, I discovered that I have a number of "conversion" dials to fit 12 size Elgins, which like Peorias, use the same dials for both OF and HC models. The Elgin "conversion" dials have no seconds registers, and although their foot patterns are the same as for ordinary dials, their numeral patterns are shifted 90 degrees so as to allow the pendant position to correspond with the 12 o'clock mark on the dial when a HC movement is housed in an OF case.

Since there are two types of movements (OF and HC), and two types of cases (OF and HC), it's easy to see that 2 x 2 = 4, and thus, there are four different possible combinations using ordinary dials, movements, and cases. If a conversion dial is used, however, that adds another four possibilities, for a total of eight, and all eight of the various possibilities are shown in the image below.

They are as follows:

A - Ordinary Dial, OF movement, housed in OF case
B - Ordinary Dial, HC movement, housed in HC
C - Conversion Dial, HC movement, housed in OF case
D - Conversion Dial, HC movement, housed in HC
E - Ordinary Dial, OF movement, housed in HC
F - Ordinary Dial, HC movement, housed in OF case
G - Conversion Dial, OF movement, housed in HC
H - Conversion Dial, OF movement, housed in OF case

Obviously, "A," "B," and "C," are correct combinations, with "C" showing the proper use of the "conversion" dial. "F" is a typical "sidewinder," which results from housing a HC movement in an OF case, while "D" and "E" are less typical variations showing HC watches with the 12 o'clock numeral on the dial nearest the pendant.

"G" and "H" are strange combinations that can only result when "conversion" dials are used in the opposite manner to which they were intended. It's interesting to note, however, that "G" would make a correct "left-handed" hunter, while "H" would make a "left-handed sidewinder," both having the "12" o'clock numeral at the top of the dial if the pendant was held in the left hand.

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"Peoria Conversion Dial"

I'm sure that if such a noted authority as the one in the topic above is/was unaware of such "conversion" dials, many other people might be as well.

Hopefully, this topic will be enlightening and informative!

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Steve Maddox
Past President, NAWCC Chapter #62
North Little Rock, Arkansas
IHC Charter Member 49

Sometimes, these conversions are easy to spot with the dial off. Some of the watchmakers who traded cases and placed on a conversion dial did a sloppy job of shortening the second hand pivot, as in grinding it down, etc. Such sloppy work would provide evidence to differentiate a latter conversion from a watch that left the factory that way.

Best regards,
Greg

What about the factory made dials that show the seconds bit at three o'clock. Are these not also conversion dials?

Dials such as Jerry mentioned, with the seconds registers at the 3 o'clock position on the dial, are also "conversion" dials. The most unusual example I've ever seen of those are wind indicator dials for 18s Elgins. I've only seen a couple of those in my life, but they have the seconds register at the 3 o'clock position, and the wind indicator register at the 9 o'clock position. Obviously, they're intended to convert HC wind indicator movements for use in OF cases, with the 12 o'clock numeral nearest the pendant. Suffice it to say, they're exceedingly cool!

In my opinion, it is immaterial if a watch left its factory with a "conversion" dial, or if the dial was added later; the dial is still a "conversion" dial because it "converts" a HC movement to appropriately fit in an OF case.

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SM

Steve Maddox
Past President, NAWCC Chapter #62
North Little Rock, Arkansas
IHC Charter Member 49