I came across this web site. I bought a watch from him, everything else he has looks all right.

But this is the first time I have seen a 16S Ball ORRS with a pendant set, how rare is that?? Its not in Shugarts, or I missed it. Also Lindell told me that the Ball watch Company started marking their cases "Ball Model" for the 18S by 1906. And I am under the impression that some 16size were marked "Ball Model" before that, have I been wrong all these years on the 16 size?? But the seller says the early 16 size weren't marked in the case. I really think the seller is wrong.

Of course this wouldn't be the first time I was out in left field. last but not least, is the dial on this watch supposed to be on a Commercial Ball and not on a ORRS model??
Help me out here guys, my truths in granite are being slowly shattered.
Jack
see web page here

Jack Goldstein
NAWCC 0152932
IHC 185 #274

The 16 size Ball Waltham pendant set watches are correct, although they were not made in large quantities. They were made both in open face and hunting configurations, and were acceptable for railroad service when they were made. I am not aware of any precise breakdown between the LS and PS production quantities. Some of the runs may have been mixed between the two.
As for the cases, this gets to be a difficult question to answer. A number of these early 16 size Ball watches are listed in our database as being in "non Ball cases", others are in what are obviously much later safety bow cases, so determining what is "original" can be difficult without factory records or ads for watches made during this period. Since very few of the early 18 size movements are in marked Ball cases it may very well be true of the early 16 size as well.

Ed Ueberall
NAWCC 49688
IHC Member 34
The Escapement

Has anyone recorded when the 16 size Waltham-Ball moved from the "Ball & Co." to the "Ball Watch Co." signature?

Fred

Ehrhardt addressed some of this info in his Feb 1983 Pocketwatch Newsletter.

In this he has a serial number list of Ball watches.

Ed is correct, there were mixed runs of Pendant and Lever set ORRS watches

B134001-B134100 100 OF 17J movements mixed P&L
B134201-B134300 Ditto
B134601-B135000 Ditto

B0505501-B0506000 This is a Mixed run of 17 and 19 J P&L. this run is listed to also contain many brotherhood movements.

I did not look for Hunter movements.

The Ball& Co seems to have disappeared by 1899-1900 by the info listed in this publication. This may not be correct though, as his designation for this marking is only on Hamilton 18s movements. He does not break out the Ball & Co marking on the Waltham movements.

Ed & Terry, thank you very much, I apreciate your help.
Chapter 185 works for me!
Jack

Jack Goldstein
NAWCC 0152932
IHC 185 #274

Post script......
I believe the serial list is also reproduced in the 1993 encyclopedia and price guide Ehrhardt sells.

I went ahead and bought it. One thing is for sure, there's not a lot of ORRS Ball pendant set's around. Now I need to sell somthing? Thanks again 185
Jack

Jack Goldstein
NAWCC 0152932
IHC 185 #274