Being a new collector of railroad watches, I have been told by some collectors that they periodically wind their watches. Others have said they do not. I would be interested in opinions from those more knowledgeable than I.

I have my own thoughts on this but the matter is far from decided. Lindell and I have discussed it an many occasions.

Aside from an absolutely brand-new watch which might be degraded with any level of wear.....

I am of the opinion that collectable watches should be restored to their full factory specs, in every way. Just about every watch that I acquire is serviced. If the watch is "adjusted," it is timed to the number of positions that the factory intended. All of my watches are mantained in that condition.

This is merely my preference, as a collector. I have spoken to folks who seldom, if ever, wind their watches and consider the timing to be incidental.

From a technical standpoint, our oils are now very fine, synthetics. They are far better than the old oils that were used (sperm whale). The old oils smelled bad (and got worse) and had a tendency to dry out, over time, and form a hard shellac. (If you find a brand new, old watch, you usually have to soak it, to loosen the parts). The new oils will, of course, attract dust and dirt but they do not dry out over any reasonable period of time. I've seen watches that were serviced and left for 5 yrs that started immediately and ran well. So, new oils don't require the amount of usage that the old oils needed.

I don't wind all my watches on a set-time basis but.... when I take them out and examine them, I do wind them. I feel that with the new oils, periodic and sporatic windings are just fine. As long as the watches are fully wound and allowed to "run-down" once or twice a year (or so), I'm satisfied.

If you don't or can't service your watch, upon purchase.... at the very least, expose the movement and take a good sniff. If it was last serviced with whale-oil, you will immediately notice an awful smell. Even if you notice no smell, there is still the possiblity that it was improperly serviced (one-dunk), over-oiled (attracts dirt), or not oiled at all (preferable to over-oiling). A competent COA (Clean-Oil-Adjustment) will give you 5-10 yrs of peace-of-mind (depending upon conditions and usage).


Like I said.... just my opinion. YMMV.

Hi Robert,

Like Peter, I try to run my watches every month or two and completely let them wind down. Nearly every piece I buy is serviced... the COA mentioned above. I don't do it. I am not qualified. If the watch needs more than a COA such as roller jewel, a new staffing, etc I weigh out the added cost for repairs versus perceived market value and then make (hopefully) an educated decision.

I like my watches to run well, but they do not have to keep "railroad" time. Like Lindell, I want to keep movements as nick and scratch free as possible.

First has it been serviced? If not, do not run it, you can do damage.
If it has been serviced then it is the owners choice.
My valuable pieces I do not run. I have one watch that has never been serviced and does not run. It most certainly could if serviced. It came for a jewelery store auction with both boxes papers replacement mainspring and two replacement crystals. It was never sold. The watch dates from the turn of the last centery and has never seen a screwdriver and will not as long as I own it. In my mind it is a work of art and does not need to run.
Some watches are just too valuable to take a chance of marking the screws or God forbid something else.
Just my opinion.

Your opinion, as a master craftsman, is all I need, Rich.

What troubles me, here and elsewhere, is that I seldom see a distinction, as to price or desireability, based on function.

I can't disagree with Rich. If I had a watch that pristine, I'd think long and hard before tinkering with it. Of course, "never seen a screwdriver," is a term of art rather than 100% factual. Our watches were assembled by humans who certainly used screwdrivers. Still, I suppose that, at some level of magnification, even the most skilled watchmaker will leave SOME mark on a watch each time it is serviced.

There is a huge difference between a watch that will time, in it's adjusted factory positions, and one that will merely "run." As any watchmaker knows, a movement with a clean-train will "run" even without a hairspring. I simply cannot see treating a watch that merely "runs" with the same respect and value as one who's condition and tuning allows it to keep perfect time..

I can understand Rich's perspective of treating watches as "art," but.... to me... watches are a kinetic art! In other words, their graceful and proper movement bring me as much pleasure and joy as their shiny plates and jewels.

Once again.... just my 2 cents.

Rich ,

its not fair to leave a story half untold ...

what kind of watch was it ?

: )

Pete
An 18K solid gold Patek moonphase min. repeater. I respectfully dissagree with Peter some watches just do not need to run. I also don't care how skilled you are humans can mess up(that's why they make erasers) again I say why take the chance.

Well, just have to throw in my two cents. I agree with Peter and Richie even if they don't agree with each other. I also agree with them even if it seems that I may be contradicting them with some later statements.

Running a watch degrades it in some small way even if it's newly serviced with the best synthetic oils. It's a machine and it's already run in. A properly serviced watch does not need to be run unless it needs to be checked for some reason (like it was dropped).

But... I had a friend with a minute repeater, 18k gold case and a box that it went into and could be operated from with an external lever. Regardless of it's worth, and in PW terms it's worth a lot, he loved to show it off and operate it any chance he got. For someone who had never heard a repeater before he would operate it and explain the ringing of the chimes until the neophyte understood the system. He loved it because it was a quality piece and expensive. He also loved it because it was a fun watch to operate. It had a beautiful tone and an exquisitely pristine movement. Now, he was quite aware of what he was doing each time he operated it. He was a watchmaker and would fix or service it himself. I knew what kind of collector he was and I doubt he would have had any reason to own it if he couldn't operate it whenever he got a chance.

No matter what we do all of these watches are going to wear out someday. They will all be gone just as we will be although many of the watches will last longer. The choices that collectors make, from how they get their watches serviced, to where they live, how they store their watches and how often they run them will all affect how long the watches last. There's other factors too.

Have fun collecting and hopefully collect to have fun, just MHO. If part of your enjoyment comes from seeing the watches run then run them! If you're retentive then wind them once a month to give yourself something to do! It's probably best to have them serviced. If they're not serviced then just run them dry once a year and that's not going to hurt much even if you do it once a year for your entire life.

From the first poster's question about the "Knowledgeable" part... I'm not at all knowlegeable. I just fix watches and collect South Bends. I really know pratically nothing about anything. The only thing I know for certain is that I do not know. Since you mentioned the knowledgeable people were "collectors" I wonder where they are getting their information from. If there has been a scientific study done I would love to see it. I'd pay money to see it if the study were done with scientific rigor. Otherwise I'll stick by my statement that a properly serviced watch does not need to be run barring mitigating circumstances.

Frank "407" Kusumoto

I only wind my watches once in a while when I take them out of safe-keeping for some reason, but this may not be the best procedure. Who knows?

A few days ago I found an 18s, 7j Elgin in a box that I had forgotten about. It had a worn leather strap and had been re-cased in a swing-out silveroid case. The crown is worn so someone has used it a lot in the past. This is not a highly collectibe piece! I wound it with some difficulty because of some sleeve issues, but it ran like a champ, keeping near perfect time for 24 hours. I wound her again, and the mainspring broke or came loose from the barrel. Now what? It's probably not worth repairing, but IMO it should be and that's the reason I'm shipping it to Rob Carter to get it going again. He's serviced several of my watches in the past year -- some very collectible and some no so collectible -- but they're back the way they should be.
Tom Walker

I've got to admit, with all the 21j watches I've owned over the years, and own now, some of the very best time keepers I've owned have been 7j Elgin 18s pocket watches.

They kind of remind you what the heck these things were/are created to do, don't they?

I don't have one in the collection at the moment, but you've made me want to go find another one in the near future, Tom.

Regards! Mark

I'm in the "don't wind" camp I guess.

When I get a new watch, I typically get it serviced and then run it for a few days to make sure everything is OK. Then I put it away.

The only watch I wind every day and keep running constantly is the one I'm carrying. I consider anything beyond that to be just needlessly wearing out my watches.

I don't wind mine either and I'm a knowledgeable expert!

Larry