Hi All,

Have three questions, would anyone have information pertaining to the 18 size convertibles made by the Trenton Watch Co, the pocket watch guide only lists the 16s? A person did tell me that these were made and one of Roy's books talks about them, does someone know what book he mentions these in? How rare are they?

Thanks to Everyone,
Bila

Bila, Trenton was notorious for "copies" of other watch maker's movement plate designs and in general 18s Trenton copied movements were full plate types. The 3/4 plate Trenton 16s "Convertible" that could only be finished at the factory "either way" (pictured is the only one that passed through my collection) is in itself a low production watch only made as a 16s for a very short period. If someone has Roy's encyclopedia Vol 1 or 3 any mention of an 18s would be there.

Thanks David for your input in regard to my query, I have a nickle plate 16s in the 600,000 serial run, but also have the larger 18s version of the convertible, has the split plate cut in a similar place as the 16s but a slightly different shape cut. These I have in nickle and gilt plates, diameter is around the 45mm size, the three fall within serial number ranges 150,000-160,000.

Very interesting.any pictures?

David I have just purchased a couple of Roy's guides so hopefully I have scored the right books. Below you will find an image for comparison between the two movements, 16s on the left and 18s on the right.

Bila, I believe the 18s you have pictured is a Model 3 18s Trenton which is a post "Lancaster" 3/4 plate, but not "convertible" in the sense that the plate screw hole pattern and outline cutout of the motor barrel cover does not allow for 90 deg crown stem indexing by just "flipping" that cover. i.e., The cover cuts were uniquely "one-sided" rather than symmetrical (as with the 16s). The model 3 18s IS STILL a noteworthy collectible. (pic is on that passed through my collection. Rough dial, but good Mvt.)

Yes David it does look like a model three and that was my thoughts as well after another look, it is great to have another persons expertise such as you, as it jogged my memory.

I then decide to pull the dial and look underneath, so I have uploaded s photo for you to look at. After posting yesterday I remember a tidbit of info that had slipped my mind, the changes to make this from open face to hunter occur differently to the 16s, which is based on rotating the back plates.

This one has all the changes factory done under the dial, so is it a true convertible? You will notice in the photo an extra pin for the minute wheel, cuts for the winding arbor & lever, and factory screw holes to mount the arrangement 90 degrees further around.

Looking forward to your response, if you consider it a true convertible?

Cheers,
Bila

front plate gear side,

Yes, it is a convertible. Also, it has to be RARE!

So, all the gear side stuff has to be relocated too? I think I can make out the extra holes and slots for the whole thing to be re-indexed 90 degrees.

Great stuff.

Just reviving this thread about the Model 3 18s Trenton convertibles, attached is a photo of 3 movements, the movement on the left and the middle are both Model 3 Grade 40 (left) & 60 (middle) Convertibles, albeit with a different plate set up and the one on the right a standard Model 3 grade unknown, The one on the left is the same plate design as used for the 9 jewel Chronograph that Trenton made.

I wonder if the Chrono also was set-up as a convertible, although a catalog cut in Roy Ehrhardt's 1974 price guide an advert from S F Myer's list the chronograph in only open face configuration and then to confuse the issue another cut of a chronograph listed in hunter configuration from a price guide in 1979? I have never had one in hand to find out, does someone else have one that they could check?

If anyone with an interest in these could provide serial numbers for any Model 3 Trenton watches they have and observe if they are convertible, chronograph or standard design and nickel or gilded plates it would be appreciated. I have been recording numbers and damaskeening features as well for these and if the Pocket Watch Price Guide is correct in its’ assumption that the Model 3 was only produced during 1891 it should not be hard to pin down a sequence of production and features of the Model 3 with a few more observations.

I posted an interesting Trenton 18sz over in PITFALLS since it is an ongoing auction that you might want to look at Bila or others.
regards,
bb

Thanks Buster I will have a look.
Cheers

Hi Bila,

Here is the one I owned and sold . Trenton 16s Model 1 Trenton sn 661556. I am not aware of an 18s Trenton convertible. If this is not what you want let me know and I will remove them.

Harry

2

Thanks Harry for looking, this appears to be a 16 Size Model 1, Grade 30, same plate design as the hard to find and famed 16 size convertible. I am starting to wonder if these 16s convertibles actual exist as stated in the Pocket Watch Guide.

I have examined a few of these and none have been Convertibles, the way the plate design is done and the position of the train they could not have the plates rotated to have their configuration changed in my opinion.

I know David Abbe had posted one on the forums here, but I do not know if he had ever stripped it down. I also know of some other collectors who have purchased them as Convertibles and when serviced found them not to be .

In all the catalog cuts and advertising documentation I have or have seen there is not one reference made to the 16 Size Convertible with regard to this model and plate style. So I am starting to think the Guide has got it stuffed-up again

You may be right Bila. I never tore it down to check. I prefer open face and since it was already open face and in a nice case I never bothered.

Harry

Just bringing this to the top.

If anyone with an interest in these could provide serial numbers for any Model 3 Trenton watches they have and observe if they are convertible, chronograph or standard design and nickel or gilded plates it would be appreciated.