17 jewels,sw/ps 16size s/nH651541 circa 1949 movt marked 5 adjustments although,the Elgin database states 2 pos.This grade[574]is not in the fat book grades 572,573 and 575 are.Possible error there.The watch appears to me to be original in every aspect including the Elgin Illinois case.Would like to have you input on this. Roger

bezel off

movt&cover

last one movt.

I carry a model 575 15j version , circa 1947 or so, as a 'yard/garden' watch, and they're tough as pine knots. Mine is UGLY as sin, but I rarely ever have to reset the time.

Use that as a carry watch. It's a work horse, and a nice looker to boot.

The breakdown is listed below for the 57X grades.

571- 21jewel lever set adjusted 5 or 6 positions
572- 19jewel lever set adjusted 2 or 3 positions
573- 17jewel lever set adjusted 2 positions
574- 17jewel pendant set adjusted 2 positions
575- 15jewel pendant set adjusted 1 position
5 positions=8 adjustements
6 positions=9 adjustements

By this time Elgin was near the end, the 571 continued on but the others were dropped from the line up at various dates. I think the grade 616 supplanted the others except for the 571 since it ran from 1950-54. After the 571 and 616 you started running into the Swiss/French movements case in "Star Cased and Timed" gold cases that was probably done in SC after the Elgin plant was shut down. I have a couple of the Swiss/French watch, usually you can pick them up cheap and sometimes find them in near mint cases.

Claude, I have a 616 and it is looking like the end of the line. No fancy damaskeen, and 17 jewel. I never really had any info on it. Do you know much about the grade?

The 616 was Elgins last effort to provide a non-RR approved 16 size movement that was made from scratch like the prior Elgins but at this time the pocket watch market was headed south in a big way so they stopped the 616 and just made the 571. Elgin made watches at the SC plant after the old plant was shut down and probably continued making the 571 from left over parts and then when the parts ran out started making the grade 755 which is a flat nickel 17j ps French made movement that was cased in a Star gold case. Your 616 has the pressed in jewels, with the better hairspring and balance (Invar type)it is a good pocket watch but Elgin lightened up the features a bit (no patent regulator) it has many of the features of the 572-575 but some extras were dropped to cut the cost a bit. It is a good watch for what it cost back in the 50's.

Elgin 755 French Movement





Elgin 976 Swiss movement

Thanks everyone for your replys and I agree with you Mark.I have been carrying it for almost 3 weeks now and have not had to re-set it yet. Roger

Claude, Thanks for the reply. That's about what I thought about the 616. It is in pretty good shape but I haven't checked it for accuracy. Guess I'll have to do that soon.

Well, there you go, Roger! Railroad watches were required to be plus/minutes 30 seconds per week. Your watch is beating THAT requirement, and it's not even railroad approved!

Regards! Mark

One would think that by this time the 57X series watches would have been highly accurate by design. The RR market was not that huge in the 40's and 50's so probably one watch checked for timing in the positions would be good enough to satisfy the RR market demand (571), as a way to save money on the others probably the extra effort/time and labor cost was not done. I think all of the 57X series had the better balances and hairsprings so that would have made a big difference by itself, timed to 2-3 postions probably was more than enough to stay within 30s week, that might be true for the 575 also. The late French/Swiss movement were marked unadjusted but that was mostly done to beat the tariffs, adjusted movements were taxed at a higher rate. My 755 keeps great time but it probably needs a good COA since I do not know when it was last serviced.

Here's a similar Elgin 574 stating 5 positions. I think what Elgin was doing was counting the then standard 3 adjustments and throwing 2 more in to make the movement sell. This example is not as nice as Rogers with incorrect seconds hand (?) and the regulator needs to be repositioned inside the whip and a possible plate screw is missing (?)

The serial N301815 is which places this watch around 1950 which was the last year of this 17j 2adj 16 size watch.

Thanks Roland,for posting the pics.I see that the cases appear to be different.Is yours in a Elgin case?Just curious Regards Roger

Hi Roger it's in an Illinois Case for Elgin National Watch Co.

This watch isn't mine. I just came across it on the bay when I searched Elgin 574.

This example is quite rough for a timepiece that isn't that old.

Roland, you want to talk about rough! I'm afraid to even attempt to unscrew the back or bezel off my case, as it's tougher than nails to get them RE-threaded back onto the case. I'm glad it's a pendent set, or I wouldn't even attempt to carry it. I wouldn't have the patience to try and put the bezel back on the watch if it were a lever set.

These seem to have been very popular with working folks, as most examples I've seen (mine included) seemed to have lived extremely hard lives and were treated rough....but kept on doing the job they were designed to do.

Roger's is one of the nicest examples I've seen of this grade in a LONG time.

Regards! Mark

Mark,the back and bezel screw on and off with ease.I think this watch wasn't carried very much.However,I do have some that can be very diffuclt to get on and off.To bad there's not a thread chasing tool or is there such a thing?Worked in oilfield for a while and used them often. Regards Roger

Roland,
I am not sure yours has an incorrect second hand, here is a picture of my 572 with the same hands,
Bill.
Also some pics of my 616, these are both great timekeepers.

mvmt 572. You will note this one has 6 adj.

dial 616

mvmt 616, you will also note this is has 6 adj.

And now mine, which I'd like to add to this thread. 1951 573. 17j, adjusted 2 positions (even though it says 5), lever-set.

Movement