As a collector I try to collect what I like or what I need to enhance my collection. I am not an investor even though I try to get the best deal I can because some day my collection will be destroyed and each piece will go to the highest bidder just as collection have done in the past.

Now saying that if you find a pretty rare watch that is running but they are so rare you either buy it or wait maybe 5 more years to find another one that may or may not be in better shape so you decide to purchase it. Now you have to decide how much you want to put into it to restore it.

This is where the value vs cost comes in. I am going to make up numbers just for simplicity. Say this watch has a book value of 400/700/1200. You pay $300 for a poor running watch that is complete. You spend another $200 getting the movement cleaned and serviced and in time and a new mainspring, jewels and whatever it needs. Now you are into it for $500. You put your best correct dial and hands on it so figure that was $75 now you are up to $575. Put it in another GF case which is almost perfect for another $125. Now you are up to $700.

Now go back to the book value. You are very proud of the way the watch turned out. It looks "Mint" or at least "Near Mint". Mint value remember is $1200 and your cost is $700. If you could sale it for $1200 you would be doing great. Anything above $700 you would not be losing money but more than likely even as rare as the watch is you would probably be lucky to get $500.

Now if you were an investor this would be a shaky investment BUT as a collector would this be a wise purchase? You have put a lot of time and money into it. I guess what it comes down to is pride and piece of mind. You can proudly say "yes I have a (Whatever)and it runs perfectly and it is in near mint condition.

How many of you have put a lot of money into a watch that although the value is there you may not get your money out of it if you have to sell it. I guess you call it the love of the hobby or the love of the watch to save it even if you will not get your money out of it.

Hard to answer that, Harry, as the prices you're quoting are todays book values. Will they still be that price in, say, 10 years? 20 years?

If one is concerned about the cost of restoration of a valued piece, they're usually looking down the long road ahead and hoping those prices will continue to rise as those 'rare' pieces continue to get rarer with attrition.

Regards! Mark

I try to buy what I consider overlooked and non-chased after grades. I have purchased 3 Hamilton 990's of under $250 in nice condition, running etc and for the life of me don't understand why people will spend another 30-50% for a lesser 992. You see this with Hampden and Elgin brands, I am ok with that. I will also look at 15-19j since many collectors only chase the big dogs (21-23j and higher)so I look at value/price not so much at resale athough if I have to sale my watches I would like to at least get my original investment back. I don't see things getting much better as far as the economy goes anytime soon so gold and some collector items like watches should hold their value.

I bought Washington Watch Co watch Senat HC
in book there is no size 16 hunter only OF
and price at 95/125/225 (joke if you ask me)
I payed 350 for mine and proud of it only 500 ever made my price if I will sale will be $500
you will pay more for what wand and so will other collectors
Also just sold sz18 19 jewel BWR for $350 book price 175/275/400 so collectors will pay for good watch and not look into the book for guide.

being a complete novice... I'll share my vantage point... at least where I am right now in my early learning stages ... I am most likely in 'too deep' in some of my purchases already.. but I pay no mind as I am not spending large amounts of money to begin with...

I simply love these little mechanical wonders...
I have always been fascinated with anything mechanical...
I love to look at the works under a microscope and I imagine what it took to build it...
I love to image who might have owned it ... what life did they lead....
I'm not ready to jump in and start collecting anything of great value that might have true collector value now or even in the future...
I do have some guidelines I adhere to for myself when making a purchase... and try not to get to carried away with something I really really want..

But truth be told .. the way I see it... I'm not really interested in future value of anything I am collecting right now..
I don't think I would ever sell anything I have acquired.
I feel owning these items is sort of like owning land ... and I ask myself.. do I really 'own' these things ?. .or am I just renting them while I have time on this earth ?...
I don't have any plans on making an investment with the idea that it will be worth more in the future... although, I have the utmost respect and admiration of those that do, as I have seen some really beautiful examples here in the forum...
all these things I have collected will go to my children someday.. and I hope they are never in a situation where they would be forced to sell them and I hope if they are don't cherish them the way I do .. they will cherish them simple because it was mine some time ago...
I suppose my viewpoint would be considered naive to some... but I don't mind.. I love having these things and I get excited like a little kid when I found a new one ...
cheers to all my collecting friends...

Being a sucker for restoration, I cannot say enough for the personal reward I get making a "dead" watch come to life again, regardless of the time and materials to do that.

As for value I agree totally with Lou and quote our leader Lindell Riddle from about 10 years ago:

"These watches and those shown previously are great pieces of history. I have a Hamilton 4992B equipped with bezels and crystals on both sides. On Memorial Day last year I gave a talk at a nearby gathering and passed the view-back around as I explained its significance. It was really something to see the tears well up in the eyes of WWII Veterans when I spoke of the sacrifices of their generation and how these watches played a big role in preserving the freedom so many take for granted today. A retired municipal judge from our area was especially moved and while holding my watch in his trembling hand shared the story of how he and his Navy Buddies spent several days on a life raft after their ship was torpedoed and sunk. They had nothing but a compass, a radio and their 4992B without which they would have perished. He had not seen one of these in the last 60 years but immediately recognized it, explaining how much it meant to him to hold the watch and how it helped him relate the events of the eventual rescue. It was moving to hear this man in his eighties speak of heroism in a way few of us can even begin to comprehend. It was quite a day for me. "

My position is that we are caretakers of an important piece of World (and especially American) History. If we buy these as an investment, that makes us an investor, not a collector, but in either case most of our watches will live for much longer than we will,

The question of value is only what the insurance value may be. The sale value will fluctuate with demand, and the demand will be the price of "want" that is paid by the future collector/caretakers of these priceless instruments. But the true "collectible" value is what they MEAN TO US as their proud caretaker of the moment!

This is what this post was all about. What is important to each and every one of you when buying a watch and determining how much you are willing to spend on it to get in in shape, or just leave it like it is and cherish it the way it is.

I do not mind spending $300 to restore a $100 watch if that watch means something to me and my collection.

David I will share a story with you. Back when I was working I use to take some of my watches into work and clean them when I did not have anything else to do. One night my friend Dennis was working the shift with me and Dennis had a young trainee working the mid-shift with us. His name is Manny. Manny at the time was a young Puerto Rican of I would guess 27 at the time.

Manny looked at the watch and remarked how beautiful it was. I handed Manny the watch and told him it was 100 years old. Manny was amazed since it looked so new. After Manny examined the watch for several minutes Manny asked where the battery was. I told many these old watches did not have batteries. Manny then asked what makes it run at which I explained the process of winding and setting the watch.

It was then I realized what the youth of today was missing a large parts of our history. Things you and I take for granted because that is the way it was when we were growing up are lost to the youth of today.

quote:

I do not mind spending $300 to restore a $100 watch if that watch means something to me and my collection.

exactly...well said ....

quote:

It was then I realized what the youth of today was missing a large parts of our history. Things you and I take for granted because that is the way it was when we were growing up are lost to the youth of today.

you hit the nail right on the head with that statement

quote:

quote:
It was then I realized what the youth of today was missing a large parts of our history. Things you and I take for granted because that is the way it was when we were growing up are lost to the youth of today.


you hit the nail right on the head with that statement

also well said... on both accounts...

I must add... this is a great forum .... I am proud to be member 1874 ... sounds like a good year for a watch to be built ...

Mighty fine year Lou.

I also get a big charge out of re-animating dead watches, many of mine I got as non-running "mechanics specials", but all of them turned out nice, some ended up being bargains compared to the price of a complete runner.Some may have cost a little too much in the end, but I've never sold a watch, and don't intend to.I collect 17-19-21J railroads, so I can't stand to see a fine RR movement get cannibalized for parts, either.This is supposed to be for enjoyment, so why not just collect the ones you want, and don't worry about the future value, it's a good feeling to know you are helping preserve a big piece of American watchmaking history...we made the absolute best watches right here in the good ole' U.S.A, no one else even came close!...Ted.