Hey Guys/Gals, Another question. I like to carry different watches once in a while. I prefer 18s watches,usually 15-17 jewels. I just recently got a 17 jewel 18s Waltham PS Bartlett. I have several of these,but this is my "New One". I cleaned and oiled it,installed a new(yes correct)mainspring,and it runs great,but like several other watches that I have,it runs about 1 minute slow every 24 hours. I have adjusted it with the regulator,and with it set almost all the way to fast,it keeps good time. It has no timing screws,or timing washers that I can see,so is advancing the regulator the correct way to make up the "lost time"? Could the new mainspring have anything to do with running slow?

The first thing to check is that the hairspring is correct in the regulator pins. Then the hairspring is flat in between the cock and the balance. Because I'm assuming that you had taken the movement completely apart During the cleaning procedure. I had this six paragraph reply. Thought I'd start short.

Cecil, There are a multitude of possibilities, some of which are (and in no particular order):

1. Too much play between the regulator pins and hairspring. The hairspring should be in contact with the pins at least 80% of the time.

2. Loose roller jewel.

3. Roller jewel binding in fork of pallet.

4. Cracked or broken jewels.

5. Pivots that are worn or not polished bright.

6. Pivot holes that are not cleaned.

7. All cap jewels must be removed and the hole jewel and cap jewels cleaned during the cleaning process.

8. Pallet guide pin rubbing roller table.

9. Worn balance pivots.

10. Missing or loose balance screws.

11. Mismatched balance/hairspring.

12. Wrong oil used or excessive oil.

Those are just off the top of my head. There are almost infinite possibilities.

Thanks Eugene,and Roger,I think I got a headache reading your list. Although,most of those things have been done or checked. Maybe I better leave well enough alone. It runs good,and with the regulator advanced,it keeps good time.

Cecil, Your watch should have "mean time screws" which may have been scrwed all the way in during past servicings just to regulate the speed as the hairspring ages. You can recognize them because their thread showing inside the balance wheel is usually about twice as long as the Ballast grade Balance screws.

If they are there, what I would do is to undercut the two opposite balance screws just adjacent to the mean time screw at the ends of the balance wheel cross arm, and then check timing again. If you have removed the right amount it will come in much closer to corect time or be running a little fast which you can correct for with the regulator and/or the mean time screws.

David,do you mean remove part of the screws,with maybe a file? I think I maybe considered that already. I know if the balance wheel is lightened,it will speed up the watch. Too late tonight,the sand is already getting in my eyes. Maybe tomorrow. Thanks for the encouragement.

Cecil, PLEASE do not mess with the screws with a file . There are tools for clean weight reduction (undercutters) and tools for "easy" weight reduction (work like a center dril) and both have to be done carefully and thoughtfully in order to leave the wheel undamaged.

A minute a day is small error for that watch actually and indicative of the age of its hairspring.

Hey David,I wouldn't try to file down one of the balance screws. Seems a pretty un precise way to do it. That would be like using a stone axe to cut down a tree. I just didn't understand what you meant by "undercut",and I'm kinda relieved that that isn't what you meant. I have although changed out balance screws in matched pairs for smaller or larger ones,to get a watch that was way off from a hairspring change,or even a different balance wheel. I wouldn't try even that with this watch,because like you said,this one is close enough,and like I said,it is keeping time within about 1 minute a week now,with just the regulator advanced. I like my watches to keep good time,and I have been known to keep messing with one until it is completly broken. But that is a habit I am trying to break.

David,One more thing. You professional folks have the skills,knowledge,and the tools to do the job as it was meant to be done. I am self taught,and all I have is my own experience,and what I learn here,and from books. Watch collecting is a hobby to me,and I only work on my own watches,and even then I don't work on my own high end watches. I have seen some of the atrocities that have been done to some of these old timepieces,and I try pretty hard not to duplicate them. Filed balance screws? Yes I have seen them,but not something I will do,but I kinda understand that sometimes if you don't have the correct parts,you must improvise,and ten years ago,I might have considered it,except ten years ago I wouldn't have even known how to do that. Today,however I have more experience,more knowledge,and a large stock of parts,and very seldom run into a need of a part that I don't have. I am far from a professional,but at the same time,I rarely find a watch that I cannot repair,and make keep reasonable time.

Way to go, Cecil. I'm with you.

Cecil, As mentioned above there are many things that can cause you problems and need checking out first maybe even consider re cleaning it in fresh fluid, have you demagnetized it ? that’s the first thing I would try, look at the amplitude of the balance if all ok, I would center the regulator (to get a true picture of error) before making any adjustments measure the timing error face up, face down, the error should be the same then measure pendant up error.
Hope that helps,

Hey Chris, Ya know demagnetize,that is something that I have not done. I'll get right on it. I have an antique demagnetizer,but the old thing still works great. As for positions,well I am carrying the watch,so it should be in all positions. But after I run it through the demagnetizer,I'll set it to center and recheck it. Worth a try,Thanks.

Cecil,

Do the timing test face up and down if there is a reasonable difference in results this will indicate other problems that need addressing before adjusting the weights, and then the pendant up this will indicate another set of possible problems, adjusting the weight is the last thing I would do until I am certain that is needed.
the old demagnitizers work great I use a old South bend coil type.

Well, after demagnetizing,setting the regulator to center,and 24 hours later,it is just about 20 seconds slow. So demagnetizing removed about 2/3 of the problem. I think bumping the regulator just off center,will make that up and she should be right on. I ran it 12 hours face up and 12 hours face down,didn't seem to make a difference. Thanks all for the assist.