Back in 2009 I bought a 18s Ball Hamilton 17 jewel #560181 model 999. It was in a Ball model swing out Silveroid case engraved on the back for a jewelry store in Portland Oregon named Belding & Saxton. The movement should date to 1907-1908 in the run of 999 560001-561000.

In January of this year I saw another loaner for auction for the same jeweler. I thought it would be kind of unique to get the two back together again. This one was also in a swing out Silveroid case.

This one is a 16s Ball Hamilton 21 jewel # B602003 from about 1911-1913. From what I have been able to find out about the movement by searching the site it is what is called Grade 999 Gold Seal Motor Barrel which apparently approx 2300 were made.

The photos below have the 18s on the left & the 16s on the right.

This is the case backs, the 18s is number 119 & the 16s is number 167.

The Ball case markings.

The movements.

From what I have found so far for Belding & Saxton is there were two brothers Aretas W. & Henry A Belding who were jewelers in Portland in the 1880 & 1890's, I find them listed as Belding Brothers Jewelers.

Then sometime I think in the late 1890's or early 1900's a William Saxton joins the business & the business became Belding & Saxton.

I still need to do further research on the business.

Hey Tom !

That is quite an accomplishment to be reunited after 100 long years. I can really appreciate this from so many different viewpoints. The likelihood and odds of these watches being found together today after being separated so long has got to be astronomical !!

I just heard the other day that plants talk to each other. So don't be alarmed if you hear voices in the night, as these brothers will have a lot of tales to tell

Thanks for the history and thanks for what you do for all of us and a special thanks for locating and putting these watches together again under the same roof

Salute !!!!

regards,
bb

Thanks for sharing Tom, Very interesting. I like those loaner watches.

Tom,
Great looking pair of watches. Same style case, dial, and hands with one 18s and one 16s that's awesome. These jewelers must have been high end to loan out such nice watches.

I'll second Buster's Salute!!!!

RR

Great find Tom! Only 48 more to go and you'll have a complet set!!

All kidding aside, your a great asset to horology. Keep it up....

Buster, I have enough to worry about and now you planted the idea that my watches talk to each other!

Tom,

Assuming they numbered them sequentially, that would mean that in approx 4 years, he added 50 or so loaners to inventory for a total of 167!! Must have been a thriving repair business.

No reason to believe they would ever truly wear out with the jewelers ability to service them, but I suppose they could have sold them to customers much like auto dealers do with demo's.

Anyhow, congrats on adding to your neat collection of loaner/inspector watches.

happy hunting,

Thank you all for the comments, I appreciate them.

I am still researching the jewelers along with other stuff, in the past few days I have found about another 100 watch inspectors across the continent.

I found where Belding & Saxton are mentioned in a 1930 edition of the Union Pacific magazine but it is not one available online so I am not sure of the content. So far I haven't found a copy for sale.

Most of the loaner watches I have held different movements over the years. What this means I won't know for every watch. Since these were taken in & out of the business & they themselves had to meet the time standards I have no idea if these were kept together as watch & case or when they needed service but loaners still had to go out where movements swapped back & forth to keep everything flowing.

Or where they swapped out over the years after they went into private hands, I know for each watch perhaps the story is different but taking into account no records survive I assume I really will never know the actual story.

So of course I can't say these two are only four years apart as loaners, as I mentioned the business was still going in 1930 & I am sure by then each of these watches had come & gone out of the store 100 or 1000 of times. Also when did the 18 size ones stop going out.

In my search for watch inspectors I have run across several newspaper articles where the system of having loaner watches is mentioned but of course no details as to how many loaner watches a business had or how they were numbered etc.

With a collection of these you can't be as specific as trying to match a case with a movement based on a date of production of either part, so as a collectible they might not be as desirable as a privately owned watch that you can say with some certainty has spent it's life together. But for me watches that are marked with a person's or business' mean something to me where as a an unmarked but correct watch doesn't. Again that is only what I enjoy collecting & isn't meant to reflect on what others collect, to each his own.

Again thanks for the comments!

Tom

Tom, don't ever stop doing what you are doing....

You are very valuable to us here at IHC185 and as Carlos said above, "You are an asset to Horology" by keeping these things alive as only you can do....You are Thomas the Train, you can, you can....

I thirdly (?) Busters Salute!!!!

Best Regards,

Jerry

Outstanding loaner watch research Tom, you're a true horological historian.

Nice pair Tom. I will bet there are more out there just waiting for you.
They would make a nice subsection of your collection.

I agree that Tom's contributions are of high value and I also appreciate them. Thank you Tom.

For information, I have downloaded eBay photographs of Belding & Saxton loaner cases numbered 106, 120, 160 and 184. The markings on these are in the same standardized format as those that Tom shows. The older loaner markings (of other jewelers) tend to be in freer styles, according to my observations.

I would guess that Tom's loaner cases date from around the end of the first decade of the twentieth century when jeweling war advertising was tending to cause consumers and the railroad industry to have lowered opinions of 17J watches, however good their quality. Putting such movements into loaner cases was an expedient method of deploying existing stock.

I note that the Ball Model markings that Tom shows are positioned above the Keystone manufacturer markings. I observe that this can be expected of Ball Model cases having the circular pattern of loaner marking. The earlier Ball Model cases have the marking below.

As the standardized circular pattern is so often observed (with jeweler markings from across the USA) it might be suspected that Ball gave a helping hand. According to Ball advertising there was a late push, at about that time, to confirm the quality and applicability of 17J watches for railroad purposes.

John

Thank you for the information & also all the other comments from everyone.

John, had you saved those ebay photos over time or were you recently able to locate those? I would be interested in seeing them & learning how you found them. If you wanted to email them to me that would be great. I must have missed them when they were put up for sale, loaners are about all I collect.

Thanks for the information about the case markings, I will have to get my others out & see how they compare.

Tom

Tom

I shall happily send you the phots by e-mail.

JBS

Thanks John!

Tom

Hey, I was glad to find this thread (and forum) in my research of my Belding Bros 18S Hamilton 924 from 1904. Being from Portland, I would love to help any way I can with your research and would love to hear any details you have found on this Jeweler. I do NOT have an example of an advertisement that would tell me where this jeweler was located (address). Do you have this information. What I have found is that they were still called Belding Bros. as late as 1910-11 when a city ordinance was filed for the construction and then removal of a post clock at 345 Washington St. Since they were to maintain it, a guess is that they were located near there somewhere which happens to be about a mile or 2 from Union Station. The clock was removed and possibly moved a year later in 1911. Regardless, the clock no longer exists that I know of in this Old Town district. I have found some information Aretas W. Belding's wife who was in the who's who of music pub from 1918. Had her residence on SW Corbett which is on the other side of town. It would be deeply appreciated if you could update any details or pictures you have found.---- the watch itself is a nice Hamilton 924 with a double sunk dial and silveroid case. I added the display back to it.

Adding this reverse image to my post

Nice watch John & welcome to the club!

As far as an address for the store this is what I have so far;
1884 AW Belding 56 Morrison residence E Park & Washington.

1896 residence Aretas 116 Nebraska, Henry 130 Nebraska

It isn't much so far.

Tom

That SW Nebrasca address makes sense since that's
Right off Corbett which is where i had AW's wife. Just
Kind of a long horse ride at 3-4 miles to 56 Morrison for work. But
They did things a lot slower then. The store
Was about a mile from the train station.
Thank you for the info

Welcome John,


Here's a poster that can be purchased at AllPosters.com. There's an address, 45 Third Street.

RR

Belding Bros. Jewelers Advertisement - Portland, OR

Here's another Belding Bros. watch that recently sold on e-bay. The movement number is 265510.

Auction Image

Movement number 517502 sold at Live Auctioneers.

Auction Image

Tom,

I came across an article that may help in your research. It states, "H.A. Belding of Belding Bros., Portland, Ore., has been elected a Councilman to represent the Seventh ward in his city."

RR

Coutesy Google Books

The Jewelers' Circular; June 22, 1898

How did you find that poster????? that's awesome! I got nothing on any of my searches. Which search engine?

John,

I've been using Google as a search engine. Here's a link that states the Multnomah Hotel opened in 1912 and now is the Embassy Suites.

Multnomah Hotel

I guess the Belding Bros. moved their business a few times.

RR

I'm guessing belding's store address as
Shown on that poster from 1912 coincides
With the opening of the Multnomah
Hotel in 1912. That also explains
The quick change of the post clock
From 345 Washington address to the
Hotel address with the new shop location
At 45 3rd st. The store must have
Previously been at Washington and
Then they naturally applied for the
Permit to move the clock in 1911
Before the grand opening in 1912.
I thing the Morrison address probably
Preceded the washington address. Unfortunately
There is no sign of the clock at
The Old site of the multnomah
Hotel which is now embassy suites

Tom, nice loaners, you have a nice collection of them.Did Ball do the engraving in house on the laoner watches?All of them seem to have the same style engraving on them.Have you seen a newer Swiss record Ball marked as a loaner?Thanks for showing them!...Ted.

Hi Ted

I do not know who did the engravings on the loaner cases. Most of the ones I have are of the same pattern but I don't know how or who decided on that style. I don't know if it was part of the Ball Time Service or really anything about it.

In all my searching for watch inspectors & loaner watches I have never seen anything mentioned other than the inspectors will have loaner watches to give out when someone's watch needs repair.

I haven't seen one of the Swiss watches in a loaner case myself.

The loaners I have a most Ball marked movements, but I do have a Bunn Special & a Hamilton 992.

Tom

Thank you, Tom.They sure make a nice collection! I can remember seeing a loaner watch on ebay a long time ago, I think it was a 645 Waltham, just marked "Loaner " and a number.No name or anything else, I thought that was kind of different...Ted.

This thread and my research now has me wanting a marked loaner (i've never seen one). How cool would it me to have one of tom's to go with my Belding non-loaner.???? wink wink. (just kidding, I think)