In the past two weeks I was able to pick up two 23 jewel 12 size Lord Elgin’s as an investment.

The 23 jewel Lord Elgin’s were Grade 194s primarily made in 1912.In a 1913 ad the movement went for $99.00.

From hand written factory records it appears that 130 to 150 open face and 230 hunters were made. To date I have seen about seven (7) 12 size 23j Lord Elgin’s.

Originally I thought all of them came in solid gold cases but this is the second 23j Lord Elgin I own that came in a similar Wadsworth gold filled case.

case

dial

other movement

Thanks Robert for posting these. I've not seen them before until now.

You got both? Well %&#$%..you outbid me on one. Although the LEs are rarer in number I prefer the grade 194's look more. I don't think there is a difference between the LE and 194 beside marking and damascening. I'll just have to keep my eyes open for another LE like yours to come up some day.

Thomas
Did you bid on the auction for a movement or a complete watch.

As I own three 23j LE maybe we can make a deal.

Bob

Hi Bob,

Wow, three? I'd be happy to talk about a deal. Probably should take it offline. I'd IM you but that function isn't working for me on these boards. Why don't you email me at (broken up so no one can crawl for it):

beetlebug
@ mac.com

Best,
Tom O.

Hello Bob
I was also bidding on the first Lord Elgin.
but I ended up buying the 194.
from what I found, there were 3 runs of the 194/Lord Elgin. 7,425,001-7,426,000, 7,499,001-7,500,000 and 12,147,001-12,148,000.

It looks like the first run was unmarked with the very fancy Damaskeening.
The 2nd run had the fancy Damaskeening and was marked Lord Elgin.
And the 3rd run has straight line Damaskeening and is also marked Lord Elgin.

anyone have a photo from the 2nd run.?

I have a few ads I'll try to post.

Doug Scheurich

1903 AD.

2nd AD I'm not sure of the Date.

Thanks for that info, Doug. Glad to see I'm not the only fan of the early 12s Elgins. I've noticed that in Grade 193 as time progressed they also went to the straight line Damaskeening. I wonder if all the grades went through that transition? I've not seen enough of them to make such a observation, though. If you want to see a few examples I've started photographing my watches and since I've concentrated on the 12s Elgins there are a few to look at. Not done yet, it's a devil to photograph watches. Here's the link:

http://homepage.mac.com/beetlebug/PhotoAlbum10.html

Doug
I have never seen your ad before. I have seen very similar ones for 16 23j Lord Elgins.Where is the ad from?

While I own both OF and Hunter 12 size 23j Lord Elgins(and have seen several others) I have only seen them in the third production run.The 2nd run of LE is either very rare or just seen in ads.

Tom
Your pictures brought tears to me eyes. I think you have a great start on a magnificient elgin collection.
I will email you tomorrow AM.
I also plan to send both of my 23j LE to a watchmaker to make sure there isn't any problems.

While the RR guys may not care I would like to thank both of you for the great information.

Bob

Thanks for the link Tom. I really enjoyed seeing your collection. Great job with the Photography.
I always find it Very hard to get a good shot of a Gold case.
I have one more 12 Size elgin. its a later lord elgin.
SN-22955107. it was the Dial that sold me. I couldn't pass it up.


Bob
there is an ad in the Ehrhardt elgin book dated 1913-14 it looks to be the same watch SN and all.
that's about 10 years after the watch movements were made. Maybe the "Lord Elgin" was added later to update the 194s that were still sitting in the safe. or maybe it was something that was only in the Ads.???
Let me know if you ever see a watch from the 2nd Run. I would realy like to know.

Doug

Probably one of the nicest 12s Metal dials I have ever seen, great. Geno

Thanks. I have only seen one other dial like this, but it was in very poor condition.

I've been hitting the books and I did find one more ad for the Elgin 194 dated 1909. it is Not marked lord elgin. still selling at $100.00

Doug

Hi Doug,
I have to agree with Lindell. That is one awesome dial! Thanks for showing it to us!