I have several Elgin dials,but right now I'm concerned with 18S DS dials that are OK for Father Time or Veritas models. I have one that's on a 23J/18S Veritas and it is clean,white and shiny looking. Another just like it has a slightly duller appearance-it is off white and sort of grainy. The shiney one's back it light grey,medium grey, and dark grey;while the duller brother dial's back is greyish outside and orange inside. Any comment's my friends? I've always wondered if it's sun damage or different mixes of materials or what...?
I know this sounds a little dumb, but can you show a picture of the dials? There are some other considerations for the dials that could explain the finish, some were enamel some were better made fired porcelain, and there are some swiss made "replacement" dials, so a picture of the inscription styles would help.
Posts: 6492 | Location: Southern California in the USA | Registered: July 19, 2007
Dave-here they are and thanks-I really didn't think the dull look was from harsh detergents and etc.-I'm putting the shiney guy first,and he's the one with the three-tone grey colored back,OK?
Dave-What I found confusing was I have an older model of the same dial-with the fancy scripted "Elgin"-and it's all nice and shiney,too... I wasn't aware that Elgin made enamal and porcelain dials at the same time-? Actually,I thought that there wasn't any difference-that enamal dials WERE porcelain dials-? Uh-oh--- Waiting to learn,my friend...!
Marty, these are both porcelain, and while dial expertise is something I must defer to Lindell, I do suggest that the "grainy" one is in fact a perfectly good, but much earlier dial as the hour numbers and seconds chapter are smaller, and the "shiny' (newer?) one has a larger Seconds chapter and larger Hour Numerals which are "clipped" at the seconds chapter postion in the "later" styles of the RR grade dials.
They both look very good, and I would use them (by age s/n) accordingly to my comments above, unless there is another explanation.
btw These Porcelain dials were ALWAYS too hard to make, and the watch people jumped (unfortunately) at the "newer" metal and plastic based dials that look like heck now. The colors on the backs wewre due to the firing as tiny temp and material changes made BIG differences in the colors.
Posts: 6492 | Location: Southern California in the USA | Registered: July 19, 2007
I could add very little to Dave's explanation, we do see some dials have held up better than others. How much of that had to do with the original finish and how much with how they were treated over the years is open to interpretation. Both of Marty's dials are porcelain-enamel, but that first one is a far nicer example.
Oh, if they could only talk!
Posts: 10553 | Location: Northeastern Ohio in the USA | Registered: November 19, 2002
I can see now that the second's chapters are different-and the hour numerals being snipped like that doesn't usually get by me...I was staring at the numbers themselves and missed it! Thanks,Dave-I was meaning to find out about this a while back. That first one came from you,Lindell! I noticed the differences and forgot to ask-You sent it with my #270 Elgin that needed a Marginal Minute Dial put on-remember?
