I picked up one of these HN4L-ADJ 1,750+ as a movement only stating that the hands won't set which is probably caused by the fact that the setting lever tang is broken off for some reason but other than that the movement is in great shape. It has a serial number of 1,580,003 and if you use the common decoders online it pops up as a 17j McKinley. I think Hampden produced in blocks of 100 vs Elgin that produced in blocks of 1000. If that is the case I would think this one would be in the 1,580,001 - 1,580,100 block. It is a pretty basic looking model 4, only marked Adjusted, Double Roller and Safety Pinion. Is my take on the serial number block scheme correct?

Hi Claude,

They didn't block out just in 100 runs only mate, I do not know where that info come from but it is incorrect. That McKinley came from a run of 500, ranging from 1,580,001 to 1,580,500.

The amount of McKinley's produced was in the Stratosphere just about, somewhere in the 160 thousands to my knowledge and that variation type of yours was up in the high 30,000 to 40,000

A little more info on those McKinley's, they where made all the way through serial block from 1580001-1581000 (so probably two runs of 500 across that serial block), all be it in a few slightly different variations, 17-21 jewel variants and Hunter models only by the looks, what does the 1,750+ stand for in your first post???

That was what I found in the Hampden section for the 21j model 4 variant

Which Hampden section, and in what source Claude"

I just found where it was from Claude, the originator of that info says that the figures are from the Hampden Book and his own research.

Just a quick look over the Hampden Book of Hernick & Arnold in just two pages alone shows many more (approximately 7,000 with a quick count in those 2 pages alone) of W M McKinley's in the model 4 17-21 jewel hunter variants produced, let alone using any other source to extrapolate more data.

To be fair to the originator of those figures it is possible that his own observations/research was to do with the positional/adjustment markings between the different models???

What the book does show is that the run your subject watch came from is what looks to be probably the very first known runs of W.M McKinley watches made of any variant

quote:

1,580,003

Claude;

Says est # of Mckinley hunters 39,100

Says est # of total Mckinleys 162,195

I know there were a lot of McKinleys especially OF and to a lesser extent hunters in the 17 jeweling format but lumping a 21 jewel OF or HC is not something that I would expect. Elgin made a lot of BWR's but there are much fewer in the 21/23j format.

Claude;

I never pd any attention to the #s on these hampdens, a 21J McKinley 16s hunter is STILL a 21 Jewel Railroad Grade hunter and it has always done well for me

I came back and look at my Hampden book and the serial number of this McKinley has to be near the bottom, it is a nice looking movement and I just had a nice hunter case fixed with a new lift spring so it should go well and look good.

Thanks to Bila for pointing that out!!!

That watch has been a nice little score Claude, probably the 3rd McKinley produced, very nice indeed

Had a quick browse through that serial list of Hernick & Arnold's book, so just a little more info on those Model 4's 21 Jewel version. Seems they started to disappear as the Grade 104's & 19 Jewel Model 4 Railways started to appear, so probably due to the marketing of the newer models.

The 17 Jewel version became the most prevalent of the McKinley's so I take it that Hampden was reducing their spread of different 21 Jewel RR Grade models. Seems to be 3 or so appearances of them again in runs later in the serial blocks around the 2,000,000, 2,600,00 and then again at the 3,000,000 marks approximately but only briefly and in short runs, so maybe special orders (just a theory)???

Although the 17 Jewel Model 4 version was still prolific in the production numbers right into the 3,100,xxx, then the Model 5's started to appear in the 21 & 17 Jewel versions around this serial range of 3,113,xxx.