How common are these 21 jewel watches?? I rarely see 12 size Elgin with 21 jewels.

I ran the serial number in the Elgin Collector's database.

It's a Grade 236, with total production of 2000 watches, all in 1899. That's uncommon for any watch, and downright rare for an Elgin:

http://elginwatches.org/cgi-bi...539433&action=search

Hi Rob,
Do not know how common these are, but I have 19j adj 12s grade 193 that looks almost exactly like yours. What grade is yours ? In mine there was 10,000 made, if yours is a grade 237 there would only be 2000 made.
Bill

Hi Rob,
yours appears to be a grade 236 having 2000 made, 1st 12s 21 jewel watch.
I have a grade 193 being a 19j, looks just like yours except it had 10000 made.
Hope this helps,
Bill
Ooops Ed was posting as I was.

I always seem to have a problem reading the info on the data base for elgins. I looked it up and seen this note under it is why I decided to post the question.

Copied from site ????

433 of 2000 in grade; 433 of 21 jewels in 12s

Does this mean only 433 were 21 jewel???

But then below that is says 2000 made in 21jewel grade 236

No Rob, it means your serial number 8539433 was the 433rd of 2000 made in 21j....

It also says that this grade is the first 21j, size 12 made....

Yes the 236 grade is rare....and nice....and is a Hunter model....

The grade 189 which is in the same class was made under the BWR name and only 19j....

Are you considering on listing it...?

Regards,

Jerry

Oh that is simple enough I didnt even think of that, I guess I was over reading it. LOL thanks Jerry and other for your input. Yes most all my watches eventually end up on the auction block as I can't afford to keep them all.

Please make sure you bring it here first before taking it to eBay....

Regards,

Jerry

There were slimline versions of the Lord Elgin that were 19 and 21 jewel versions, seems like the grades were 450/451 but those were around 15K production for each grade. you don't see too many early 21j 12s like you have posted.

Jerry,
Do you know what the difference is between the Gr. 189 and the 193. The 12 s I have is a gr 193 is 12s, 19j adj, and it states sometimes marked BWR.
Bill

Bill, there were 10,000 of the grade 193 made over a 17 year period....during those 17 years, there were 10 runs of 1000 each and of those 10 runs three were marked BWR starting with s/n 15124001 in 1910, then again starting with s/n 16232001 in 1911 and last time starting with s/n 17792001 in 1913....

Depending on your s/n will determine which run yours was made in and if it isn't engraved BWR then it was not made in any of the three listed above....

The difference between 189 & 193 is the 189 is the Hunter Model...

I hope this helps you....

Regards,

Jerry

Hi Rob,
I'll start the bidding at $130.00.
Mike

Jerry,
Thank you that was the info I was looking for, and mine is not marked BWR.
Thanks,
Bill

Rob you have one of the best 12 size elgin ever build they are quailty for sure.

A very nice watch Robert. It would seem that the date of manufacture was a little early for watches that were from the "jewelling race" years.
I wonder what the rational was for building a watch like this at this point in time?
Regards, John

Just in my reading and collecting, for some reason Elgin seemed to be experimenting with a lot of different models in 1899. I've stumbled across more odd models over the years that had 1000 or less of a particular model made, then the model was discontinued and they moved on to another.

I had a hunter cased 18s 17j model several years ago that they made in 1899, and only 800 produced. It was discontinued within a few months of it being introduced, according to Wayne's site.

Regards! Mark

John, that is as interesting question because 13 years later they did it again with the grade 407....

In 1912 the 407 was made and only 1000 pieces in one run....I have one, #403 of that run and it is a fine 12s watch with a 14s dial, 21j, adjusted ....according to Wayne's site this one was probably a LE....

Regards,

Jerry

Here are some links to the Elgin site for some of the nicer 12 size Elgins. I think the LE think models came in 17/19/21 jewel versions.

1903 OY sales cat

1917 ON sales cat

LE Thin models