I recently purchased a timegrapher machine. I should have done this a year ago. Man this is a real assistant to repair and better yet it is a relief to know the watch you just COA"d is running properly. Using one of these machines is a real benefit to Horology. I had a little 12s Elgin. I placed it on the machine and the graft showed a loose pallet stone and a lot of dirt. I tore it down and cleaned it in an ultrasonic bath (Zenith fluids) and re-assembled it. The machine said it was running fast. (Probably the new mainspring) I set the regulator to a little on the slow side and after three different settings I found one that gives me a straight line. May be a little 7 jewel but it is running perfect.
For $200.00 I am very happy.
You should think about getting one. You wont regret it.

Is it easy to use. I have been thinking about getting one just so I can state how accurate a watch is when I sell it. I always waited to see if I would get one in a shop buy out but it seems all I ever get is the old heavy units that I have no idea how to use.

Im thinking of getting one what will be the
best one to buy for collector not repair person to use?

I think that I would hate to use this machine as a tool to make a statement about a watch and it's condition, and to have that watch be sold and shipped to a customer, and then that customer to perhaps come back and say that now it is not running the same or creating the same pattern.

Shipping/handling/going into a different climate/and even differences in peoples habits all have different effects on precision instruments. So much so that I would hate to make statements that later may used to extrapolate an refund for a "not as described" item And to perhaps harm a sellers reputation and/or feedback

Just an honest "IMHO".

regards,
bb

Buster no one say any thing about making statements
to buyer.

I believe Rob did, Peter.

regards,
bb

Rob and everyone else. It is extremely easy to use but has a small learning curve in the deciphering of the lines. This information is not readily available but there is a You Tube video from the UK that is very good and both deCarl & Fried's book have information. The manual is in Chlinglish and has no information. Model 1000 is the most popular and readily available. I found them for sale all over the net but ended up choosing the man below. He gave me a good break and has free shipping UPS Ground.
Anthony Chau [anthony@acetimer.com] As far as guaranteeing a product it must be understood that when the product (Watch) left your bench it was as stated. (Simple) Just due to the Postal System alone there can be no guarantees.

quote:

I believe Rob did, Peter.

regards,
bb

Yes I did Buster Thanks for your input and you make a valid point, especially since 99% of my watches are sold as I got them with no known last service records.

If anyone is considering purchasing -MicroSet is a good American made product. It's an invaluable tool. The first time I used it I said "wow, I just thought I had you in beat"...

Sorry Buster I need new glasses.

I have a love - hate relationship with my MicroSet machine. I spent a lot of years in the Navy servicing stuff because it came due for service on the calendar... The machine tells me which watches are healthy enough to know they don't need major work, even if they might benefit from a cleaning.

The "hate part" is in line with where Joseph was headed with his comment... it is amazing how small of a beat error can cause a watch to be a minute or more off in a day... and if the error is dramatically different in positions... yikes... no hiding from reality with this little tattle tale.

Now, if I could just gain enough experience to figure out how much to tweak the timing screws so I don't have to sneak up on it in three tries. It takes a lot of discipline to get the balance wheel in and out without taking a short cut and putting the pivots at risk.

I have a 100+ year old 4 foot 992 that arrived 18000 plus or minus 2 beats in any position... that has become my standard and I have yet to match that with any watch I've toyed with. I have a couple I've been able to get close, but none that can meet or beat the 992.

As another owner of the Mumford Microset timer, I can join in here only to say Mumford makes his machine right here in California and stands behind it with service and spare parts. The China-made Timegrapher emulates the higher end machines showing beat and timing error graphically and some digital stuff, while Mumford is pure digital with a Graphices Computer interface option. Sort of like telling time with an analog or digital watch.

Before my Mumford, I checked watches by holding a "good one" to my right (bad) ear, and an unknown one to my left (better) ear and listening to them de-synchronize. "Beat Error" is also distinguishable with some practice but hardly "hearable" to the 1/10 millisecond accuracy offered by Mumford!

Either of the timers helps a lot and I think it just depends on what you get used to . . . they are BOTH better than "ears".

DAVID, I WAS MORE INTERESTED IN THE $$$$ FACTOR AND THE FREE SHIPPING AND IT WAS IN SAN FRANCISCO TO BOOT , JUST DOWN THE I-5 CORRIDOR. NOW YOU HAVE MY CURIOSITY UP AND I'M GOING TO CHECK OUT MUMFORD AGAIN. I AM NOT A PROFESSIONAL REPAIR PERSON BUT I DO LIKE TO KNOW WHATS GOING ON IN THAT WATCH!!! THE UNIT I PURCHASED HAS A 9.9 MS ACCURACY AND A 0.10 RATE DEVIATION. FOR THE USE I INTEND TO PUT IT THROUGH IT IS MORE THAN I'LL EVER NEED. I'M NOT BUILDING AND SELLING 50.000.000 WATCHES. I CHECKED BEFORE I PURCHASED AND THE SPECS COMPARE TO MOST ANY OF THE AVAILABLE MACHINES ON THE MARKET, EVEN SOME OVER $2,500.00. MOST OF US DON'T REQUIRE ALL THE BELLS AND WHISTLES.
The fellow below posted his experience with the model 1000. I also spoke with Professionals both in and out of the membership and they both agree you can't beat the Chinese machine. It's like a car. They all do the same thing. They get you from point "A" to point "B", just is some got leather seats and some cloth. Mines got a Apple crate....
http://forums.watchuseek.com/f...ce-timer-403482.html
I checked on the Mumford and it's price range is $300 to $995 and its pretty technical. http://www.bmumford.com/mset/modelwatch1.html

I have that same one and like you Patrick, don't know how I got along without it. It really saves time when you are trying to check them out after you COA them.

I bet every watch that he put on it was not in beat like you see in the pictures though.

I'm curious though, how did the graph show you that you had a loose pallet stone?

I have used mine now for over a year and it hasn't missed a "beat"!

Regards,
Larry

Lawrence

In Frye’s book starting page 300 and also in de Carl’s book there are pictures of some graphs and explanations of their meanings. I believe it’s Frye’s book on page 301 that has the information on loose pallet stones. Figure 4. It looks as if you can pick up just when one stone is loose and if it’s the receiver or the discharge stone. Then again it may tell that you have bent teeth on the escape wheel when the real problem is improper meshing due to a loose pallet stone. Also there are a number of videos on You Tube that give information. The one from the UK is very informative.

Thank you Patrick, goog info!

Regards,
Larry

Interesting post, I would really like to see one of these devices in action, this might be asking too much, would it be possible to make a video, or some pics, showing one in use, how to read results, Kind of a nuts and bolts presentation.

You may find this interesting. It's an overview of watch diagnostic tools and how to use them from Witschi (the original maker of the Timegraph-type tools). Check out pp 14-15 for descriptions of the meaning of the different patterns displayed.

Witschi Overview

Evan, very good PDF. I'm going to print those charts and hang them above my timegraph.

Gary, Almost any action the machine shows on the screen is in the books of Frie & de Carl. In Fried's it starts about page 300. If you learn the graphs or have a chart of the graphs. Mine has a spring loaded clamp on the pickup which is very sensitive. Watch the video on You Tube from the UK and you will learn what you are asking here.

Patrick,
The Timegraph 1000 is a knock off of the first (and lowest end) Witschi, and their displays are identical. Even though the pdf covers a higher end model, the graphics are basically the same, but there is more tabular information provided.

Evan

After I went back and looked again it looks as if it gives a straight line with different bleeps in it but I guess it does produce the graft. But my goal is still to find a machine that tells me how the watch is running for a price I can afford. I don't desire a $900.00 machine loaded with bells and whistles I will never use. The 1000 satisfies that need.