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Illinois Diamond, Ruby & Sapphire "Click" to Login or Register 
IHC Life Member
Picture of Robert V. Jones
posted
Ok everyone was so great in helping with info on my 992E and also helped me with getting attention to it I thought I would try another I have had laying around. Several have asked me about it and here it is. Any info on it would help me in the description.I know it is not original case but I gave up trying to find one to suit it. I have a nice case but contains a fishscale bunn and I need it in original case to help it. Anyways I decided to let it go as is. I rather know info on it and state it in the auction than to misrepresent something so whether good info or bad let me know Thanks Wink

 
Posts: 3468 | Location: Cleveland, Georgia in the U.S.A. | Registered: February 03, 2006
IHC Life Member
Picture of Robert V. Jones
posted
here is the dial which does show some light hairlines

 
Posts: 3468 | Location: Cleveland, Georgia in the U.S.A. | Registered: February 03, 2006
IHC Life Member
Picture of Robert V. Jones
posted
Back of the case is nice but no reason to show it here is the movement but looks like I need to try and get some clearer pics.

 
Posts: 3468 | Location: Cleveland, Georgia in the U.S.A. | Registered: February 03, 2006
IHC Life Member
Picture of Robert V. Jones
posted
Ok let me try another pic of the movement

 
Posts: 3468 | Location: Cleveland, Georgia in the U.S.A. | Registered: February 03, 2006
IHC President
Life Member
Picture of Lindell V. Riddle
posted

Man, oh man...

"23 Diamond, Ruby & Sapphire Jewels"

That is the definition of a "rare" and "high grade" to many Illinois collectors! According to Bill Meggers published information in the "Illinois Encyclopedia" your number 2474995 is a 16-size, Lever-Set, Open-Face, 23-Jewel, Model 9, Grade 710 from 1912 production.

On page 141 of his notes Meggers explains he only knew of 12 examples back in 1985 and at that time he placed a $3,500.00 value on it. Today, who knows what it might bring!

Quoting: "Diamond, Ruby and Sapphire Jewels in raised gold jewel settings, gold balance screws, polished rounded spoke gold train wheels -- Patent regulator -- Wide transverse band pattern, damaskeened nickel, gold filled engraving -- Polished flat headed plate screws -- Double-Sunk, glass enamel dial."

An amazing find that should do very, very well.

Wink
 
Posts: 10553 | Location: Northeastern Ohio in the USA | Registered: November 19, 2002
IHC Life Member
Picture of Robert V. Jones
posted
Wow that is always good to hear. Just think where else can you get so much great help and info for what little it costs to belong here. Thanks again! Big Grin I think I will try to get some better pics before listing it. The movement actually shines nice but I did not show it in the picture.
 
Posts: 3468 | Location: Cleveland, Georgia in the U.S.A. | Registered: February 03, 2006
IHC Life Member
Picture of Robert V. Jones
posted
Samie was good enough to snap a picture to show serial number on the cock and balance when he serviced it for me. Not bad for an old man Wink

 
Posts: 3468 | Location: Cleveland, Georgia in the U.S.A. | Registered: February 03, 2006
IHC Life Member
Picture of Robert V. Jones
posted
Pic of Balance Thanks again to Samie

 
Posts: 3468 | Location: Cleveland, Georgia in the U.S.A. | Registered: February 03, 2006
IHC President
Life Member
Picture of Lindell V. Riddle
posted

Documentation images are very helpful.

We are coming to the point that on higher value watches images proving complete authenticity of components may soon be a requirement. The more solid information the better!

And the higher the price will go! Eek

Wink
 
Posts: 10553 | Location: Northeastern Ohio in the USA | Registered: November 19, 2002
posted
Thanks Robert,

Really appreciate it.

Check is on the way.

BTW, I'm surprised Samie returned this one. Wink


Charlie
 
Posts: 719 | Registered: December 15, 2002
IHC President
Life Member
Picture of Lindell V. Riddle
posted

Yeah right...

So Robert when can we do the "bidding frenzy" on this one? Big Grin

Wink
 
Posts: 10553 | Location: Northeastern Ohio in the USA | Registered: November 19, 2002
IHC Life Member
Picture of Robert V. Jones
posted
That is a funny one Charles but everyone knows I always sell online to give everyone a fair shot.
Good try though!!!!!! Razz
 
Posts: 3468 | Location: Cleveland, Georgia in the U.S.A. | Registered: February 03, 2006
IHC Member 376
Watchmaker
Picture of Samie L. Smith
posted
Charles it was hard to send back it sure is a pretty thing. I offered a 1000.00 dollars for it can,t understand why he would not let me have it for that price. Big Grin

I could have told him it got lost in the mail like the marked 60 hour Sangamo did. Wink

All joking aside this is a nice watch with all matching #,s and a hard to find Illinois, good luck with your auction Rob.
 
Posts: 3208 | Location: Monticello, Kentucky U.S.A. | Registered: June 24, 2004
IHC Life Member
Picture of Robert V. Jones
posted
Here is the Sangamo Samie just cleaned up for me. He did a super job. Thanks again Samie

 
Posts: 3468 | Location: Cleveland, Georgia in the U.S.A. | Registered: February 03, 2006
IHC Life Member
Picture of Robert V. Jones
posted
Ok everyone I went ahead and listed the Diamond Ruby Sapphire
 
Posts: 3468 | Location: Cleveland, Georgia in the U.S.A. | Registered: February 03, 2006
IHC President
Life Member
Picture of Lindell V. Riddle
posted

Wow!

I bid over $2,000.00 and it didn't make a dent! Eek

CLICK TO SEE: Rare Illinois Ruby & Sapphire 23J Watch

Something we should point out is the fact that although Rob's DRS is similar in appearance to the Sangamo Special he also shared in this topic there are several differences that are worth recognizing. Samie Smith worked on both watches and can explain how different the finish and jewels are, but another subtle difference is the bridging.

On the left in the comparison you see below, a "false bridge" and on the right the "true bridge" ultra-high-grade Diamond Ruby & Sapphire movement featured in Rob's auction. Look at the circled areas, they indicate connected (false on left) or separated (true on right) bridging. The "false bridge" movement has the center bridge and the barrel bridge combined, on the "true bridge" they are separate which is a big distinction in quality watches.


Close comparison shows important differences in quality...


 
Posts: 10553 | Location: Northeastern Ohio in the USA | Registered: November 19, 2002
posted
Rob

I think your DRS is going to blow the book away. I haven't seen one on ebay in a couple years.

production in this configuration is 210. Sweet.
 
Posts: 719 | Registered: December 15, 2002
12-Size Expert
Picture of Robert Schussel
posted
Lindell

I was told false bridges were used to help keep down production costs.

For example some 12 size Illinois had separate bridges and later are seen with false bridges.

Bob
 
Posts: 621 | Location: Vallejo, California U.S.A. | Registered: July 10, 2004
IHC Member 376
Watchmaker
Picture of Samie L. Smith
posted
Yes these are a true bridge and have a beautiful finish on all the parts these do as the name suggest have Diamond Ruby and Sapphire jewels these even have faceted diamond endstone under the dial. These also have a different style dial than most 16 size Illinois watches in the same time frame.
 
Posts: 3208 | Location: Monticello, Kentucky U.S.A. | Registered: June 24, 2004
IHC Life Member
Picture of Robert V. Jones
posted
Interesting discussion. I never noticed that but I usually do not disassemble watches anyway I leave that to the "Old Man" Samie Razz
 
Posts: 3468 | Location: Cleveland, Georgia in the U.S.A. | Registered: February 03, 2006
IHC President
Life Member
Picture of Lindell V. Riddle
posted

Twenty two years ago Bill Meggers estimated a $3,500.00 value.

Any guesses as to how high Eek it might go today?

Wink
 
Posts: 10553 | Location: Northeastern Ohio in the USA | Registered: November 19, 2002
12-Size Expert
Picture of Robert Schussel
posted
What kills me is the price 16 size watches go for vs 12 size.

I have an Ariston 23j Grade 299 Hunter N=110 (the 12 size equivalent to the watch for sale) in an Ariston 14kt case.

My watch was first one Meggars had ever seen. I paid $500 for it about 15 years ago.

Bob
 
Posts: 621 | Location: Vallejo, California U.S.A. | Registered: July 10, 2004
IHC Vice President
Pitfalls Moderator
IHC Life Member
Picture of Edward L. Parsons, Jr.
posted
UPDATE: The current bid level is $2700, but I'm sure that's just a warm-up for the final showdown.

This has turned out to be a very interesting & informative topic, owing largely to all the time & effort Lin put into his posts. I found the part about the difference between a true and false bridge movement particularly valuable. That's something I had seen mentioned before, but didn't fully grasp until now.

It's also nice to read a customer-focussed to-the-point auction like Rob's, which simply provides the relevant facts. It gives clear pictures that show exactly what a buyer needs to see and a no-nonsense description that describes the strong points and flaws of the watch and his terms of sale in a straightforward way.

This auction is blessedly free of the voluminous pages of irrelevant details, often called "smoke and mirrors" that encumber so many eBay auctions these days.


Best Regards,

Ed
 
Posts: 6696 | Location: Southwestern Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: April 19, 2004
IHC Life Member
Picture of Robert V. Jones
posted
Thanks for the Kind words I try to be to the point in the descriptions. I know how it is to buy and I have been disappointed many times so I try to give everyone a good Ebay experience. I know some Ebayers like all the stories behind a watch but the truth is I buy and sell them as is no history that I know of and it is exactly as I buy them unless I have Samie service them. I know enough about the mechanics of a watch to try and determine problems for the buyers so they will not be surprised upon receiving. Thanks to everyone here for there support and unselfish help. You all are Great!!! Smile
 
Posts: 3468 | Location: Cleveland, Georgia in the U.S.A. | Registered: February 03, 2006
IHC Life Member
Picture of Robert V. Jones
posted
Down to the last hours any guesses on how high it will jump. Big Grin
 
Posts: 3468 | Location: Cleveland, Georgia in the U.S.A. | Registered: February 03, 2006
IHC President
Life Member
Picture of Lindell V. Riddle
posted

I am a little surprised to see it still at $2,700.00 with just six hours to go. Smile That's a good indicator the high rollers are sitting and waiting.

How high will it jump at the end?

Consider the fact Bill Meggers wrote that he had only seen twelve of these and he valued them in the $3,000.00 to $3,500.00 range 22 years ago.

And it's reasonable to think in that time they have probably doubled in value, so when the dust settles at the end of this auction the selling price may very well be...

Something in the $6,000.00 to $7,000.00 range.

That's my thinking, but what do you say?

Wink
 
Posts: 10553 | Location: Northeastern Ohio in the USA | Registered: November 19, 2002
IHC Life Member
Picture of Robert V. Jones
posted
Gee Lindell I like your estimate I was only expecting $3000-$3500 when I got it. Hopefully you are right but with Ebay one never knows. Wink
 
Posts: 3468 | Location: Cleveland, Georgia in the U.S.A. | Registered: February 03, 2006
IHC President
Life Member
Picture of Lindell V. Riddle
posted

It will be interesting to see the outcome Cool a lot of us are watching.

CLICK FOR THE: Rare Illinois Ruby & Sapphire 23J Watch

Right now $2,945.00 and two hours to go.

Everybody fasten your seat belts!

Wink
 
Posts: 10553 | Location: Northeastern Ohio in the USA | Registered: November 19, 2002
posted
What kind of case would this watch have been in?
 
Posts: 767 | Location: Los Osos, California USA | Registered: December 12, 2002
IHC President
Life Member
Picture of Lindell V. Riddle
posted

Good question Jerry! Essentially any case available at time of original sale would be appropriate for this one. Some collectors choose to show off a movement such as this in a marked as Illinois Display case.

Only ten minutes to go!

Wink
 
Posts: 10553 | Location: Northeastern Ohio in the USA | Registered: November 19, 2002
IHC Life Member
Picture of Robert V. Jones
posted
Well I did not make it back in time to watch the ending but I must say I am happy with the outcome. Looks like I had several try to snipe it at the end. Big Grin
 
Posts: 3468 | Location: Cleveland, Georgia in the U.S.A. | Registered: February 03, 2006
IHC President
Life Member
Picture of Lindell V. Riddle
posted

CONGRATULATIONS ROB,

I just got off the phone from talking with the winner of your watch. Smile

The winner is Richard Bates, one of our newest members (IHC Member 983) but he has not yet registered on our site. Richard first learned about your auction right here in this topic and has been carefully reading all the posts. He asked me to thank everyone for their comments and opinions, but most of all he asked me to thank you Rob for making this great watch available. At this point Richard plans to put the beautiful movement, hands and dial in a solid-gold case.

Rest assured, the "Diamond Ruby & Sapphire" is going to a good home!

Lindell

Wink
 
Posts: 10553 | Location: Northeastern Ohio in the USA | Registered: November 19, 2002
IHC Life Member
Picture of David Abbe
posted
You have my congratulations and gratitude Rob.

You have raised the value bar for all of us, its like if somebody in my neighborhood bought their house at 100 grand more than anybody paid last year. I think you just raised our aggregate Chapter 185 collections value by several million bucks!
 
Posts: 6492 | Location: Southern California in the USA | Registered: July 19, 2007
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