Friend of mine picked this watch up in a local pawn shop. Outside of service and a new crystal, I can't find much fault with it.
Now we're wondering what price range this watch falls in.
It's a low production watch made in 1899. One of 2,000.

And the dial side

Depends if you are looking for "as-is" or after with some TLC. The 19j, 21j and 23j are nice grade 12s Elgins. You see the 19j run from 150-450 depending on case and condition but typically 150-300 in a nice 20-25yr case. Grades 189(hunter) and 193(OF) are the 19j version which are usually marked BW Raymond. The 23j is the grade 194 and the 236/237 21j hunter/OF versions.

They are nice well made grades from the 19 to the 23 version. The one you have posted needs a dial, has wrong min/hour hands, second hand looks ok.

Might be tough getting an <<ELGIN>> dial to be time period correct vs the later ELGIN dial.

Thanks Claude,
Really appreciate the numbers and evaluation.

Would you have any reference or pictures of the correct dial and hands?

This one comes in a decent 20 yr Wadsworth monogrammed case. And I don't see any brassing, but the bow needs a little straightening.

I will take some picture of my 19j versions tonight but for the 19j it is mostly the thin spade hands. From time to time you will see them with moon hands and Elgin did tend to offer moon hands on the higher end grades like the 155/161 and 156/162 (16s)pre-1900 time frame. So Elgin thin spade or moon hands would look fine and not raise any eyebrows. Here is a post by Tom Dunn and me posting pictures of the 193, both have correct thin spade hands.

193 post

Dave,

From what I can figure from looking at hundreds of 12S Elgin offerings. This dial is correct for the 1898-1899 12S.. just tired.

I got sucked in to these 12S motor barrels and really like them. They are very high end. Great jewelling, mustache pallet, great runners and time keepers.

I took some creative liberties with this 17J version.... fancy dial, Louis XIV hands, salvaged solid gold case.

https://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/f...6044861/m/5403900287

And this is the 7J 196 I turned around a couple months ago.

https://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/f...6047761/m/6923971187


Most have the old english Elgin with the floret on either side and slim spade hands. I have a whole card of the open kite hands in blue or gold if you want to go that route.

Well worth restoring. Straight forward to COA, unlike the Rockford 12s which have been a nightmare for me to get right. I am beyond done with the Rockfords... but this watch is a winner.

Paul

I was lucky enough to get the hunter and open face versions of the 19j and they are very nice looking movements. Sometimes you can find them as "sleepers". I need to get the 21 and 23 jewel versions but the 23j version prices tend to get into the upper stratosphere range.

Claude/Paul,
Thanks again. The dial I have is pretty dirty and shows signs of the minute hand dragging, but I'm hoping that will clean off. I don't see any cracks in it at all. I imagine my friend will just leave the dial as is, his choice however.
I'm a little intimidated by the motor barrel. Anything I should be particular when I tear it down?
That's a beautiful example you have listed Paul. I've got it on my watch list. Good luck!

Dave,

Open the second link I posted above... or, this one... https://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/f...6047761/m/6923971187

I did detailed photo's of the COA because there was so much curiosity about it being a 7J motor barrel.

You can pretty much cook book your way through the tear down with these photos.

The motor barrel on these is ten times more friendly than the very similar Waltham model.

The Waltham has the gear and arbor as one piece and it is a bear to open and close the barrel and to hook or unhook the spring without stressing anything.

This Elgin comes apart with the three screws at the top bushing and allows it to go together where you can get a better feel for what's going on inside the can as you fit the pieces.

Thanks Paul,

I'm on it!

This is one that I picked up as a movement, it came with a metal dial that had scuffs so I put this private label on it. It needs a crystal, second hand, and case screw along with a COA.

This is a later version since it is marked adjusted to 5 positions and not "Adjusted".

Nice watch Claude.

Is this the style dial that I should have?

A friend said that you can go either way, like the one on it or the block "Elgin" since his is about the same time frame and they could go either way. This dial is more fancy but you could also go the typical style with 5 min markers. If you follow the 193 link that I did above you can see my other one along with Tom's, the Elgin font is slightly tilted and you can see that the numbers are a different font but fancier than normal.

Thanks Claude,
I suspect He'll just leave it the way it is.

I think an initial cleaning with denture tablets and possible a soft toothbrush and denture crème and see if you can get the drag marks off and go with that. Hour and min hands are just totally wrong, so either spade, moon, diamond or Louis types would work without too many people going off the deep end.

I agree, I think a thorough cleaning of the dial will be a big improvement.

I'll post some pictures when I get it cleaned.

Dial cleaned up nicely. Still has the bold hands and still needs a crystal. With a little adjustment the minute hand doesn't drag now.

Dave,

Shoot me your address and I'll send you a pair of open kites in blue... should look fine with that second hand. Free, gratis... those fat boys are killing me.

And, I probably have your crystal if Peter doesn't.

Paul

Paul I agree anything but those big bold RR hands, the dial cleaned up better than I thought so there is no reason to replace it. A good COA, different hands and a crystal and this will be a nice carry watch. These grades are adjusted to 5 positions but as typical of Elgins the ones before 1910 are usually marked "adjusted" even if they were adjusted to positions.

email sent Paul.

Thanks!!!!

GOOD man, Paul!!

HIGH regards! Mark