When is a non grade 410 an Illinois Grade 410.
One of those little mysteries.

I will post answers later.

Bob

OK Robert,
It's after 11:00 P.M. I've been waiting, so I would sure love to hear about this one!

I don't know much about Illinois watches, so some information on this one would be great.

Sounds interesting!

Shelia
I will post pictures tomorrow of the two grades plus a 410.

Illinois grades 405 and 416 are virtually identical ( down to the damaskeening) to grade 410.

They appear to be 410s that the factory assigned different grades too.The question that will probably remain unanswered is why.

Bob

The 23 jewel Grade 405 appears to be identical to the grade 410 in every way except it is found in a run ( 2,000) of other grade 405s.

Production estimates for the 23j 405 run as high as 600 but I suspect it is 100 or less. The 405 shown in the Il Watch Encyclopedia is #418 while mine is #453 in a Gold filled Wadsworth case.

If anyone has the 23j 405 would you please send the serial number to me.It is one of the great mysteries of 12 size Illinois.
Bob
GRADE 405 23J movement

I own two 23j grade 416. The 416 grade is also identical to the grade 410 in every way except the number of adjustments is written out as SIX instead of the number 6 used with the grade 410. the real question is why was this change made when regular 410's were still being produced.

The lowest production number I have access to is #826 and the highest is #887.It appears that 100 blocked serial numbers were reserved for the 416.

Both of my grade 416's came in 14kt solid gold Solidarity cases--one is pink gold and the other is regular gold color.

23j Grade 416