Not much listed for this Pocket Watch in the Waltham database and wondered if this watch is really this price and quality. What is listed is that it is 14K gold in the auction and in the database says that the material is listed as P (Gold) parts?

Can someone explain this to me please?
and if this watch should be added to the database? Is this information something to consider listing?

Sorry, don't know much about Walthams, new to them.

The Waltham Colonial series watches, in all of their progressive development, was an effort to produce a watch that was either, in reality, thinner than other dress watches, or at least gave that appearance. This one is a 1924 model Colonial, also designated the Colonial B. This was probably the best movement in this particular model, although some were upgraded to 21 jewels at the factory.

P-grade means that the movement was adjusted to 5 positions (or more in some grades). These often have gold jewel settings and a gold center wheel and usually have gold timing screws in the balance wheel.

Jerry, Thank you. Now, is there a Colonial A?
and I take it that something with a material listed as P is good ALL THE TIME? or no?
Are there good and not so good in the "P" listings or are they all the better made ones?
I read the explanation in the listings, but for some reason I understand it when someone here explains it to me. ???? no isea why! lolol

I forgot this one, can someone post a link or a picture of an example of the gold jewel settings for me. Seeing that all the time and still can't find it anywhere.
Thank you

Shiela,

Here is a great example of gold jewel settings.

Notice the six round gold jewel settings held into the movement plates by the small screws.

Phil,
you've got me drooling over the 24J Bunn Special. What a great looking watch

WOW !!

The photo says it all !! Way too

Does it get any nicer than that ??

If so, I'd surely like to see it - as most certainly would anyone else who shares our interests in PWs - whew !!

Way to go, Phil !!

Timely regards,

OH MY GOODNESS!! What beauties!
Phil,
Now I see it, I didn't even know that I was looking at gold jewels all this time! WOW is all I can say. Did you have to make my mouth water? lolol
Lindell, So there is a Colonial A, your watch is fantastic, and it shows up clear as a bell too.
What outstanding examples you guys have shared with me, I can't believe the look of these watches.
So, does the "P" always stand for a quality piece? Or are there levels of quality in the "P" material watches too? (gold)
I don't want to assume anything here.

Your pictures have blown me away!

Waltham's first Colonial Series watch came out around 1907 and was based on their standard 12-size watch, but had a 14-size pillar plate and dial. The larger diameter for the same size movement gave the appearance of a thinner watch -- and it WAS proportionately thinner. Around 1912 they introduced the Colonial A, like Lindell's example. These are an elegantly thin 14-size watch in two grades -- Riverside (19 or 21j) and Maximus (21j). They came in a variety of fine cases. Around 1918 Waltham came out with a 10-size version of the Colonial A, also in Riverside (19j) or Maximus (21 or 23j) grades. The Colonial A movement was the thinnest American movement until it was roughly matched by the Illinois thin models and the Elgin Hulburd. As stated above, the Colonial B is their 1924 model and was roughly 12-size, but thinner. I think it was in the 1940s that Waltham inroduced their Colonial R movement.

Shelia . . . I've noticed on a couple of different occasions recently that you have questioned the use and/or meaning of the "P" in the waltham database.

"P" as defined in the Waltham Serial Number Database Glossary:

"P" stands for "Positions." These are usually 17-23 jewel watches adjusted to 5 or 6 positions. They almost always have a gold center wheel and the highest grades have an entirely gold train. Usually they also have gold jewel settings. The balance wheel usually has gold balance screws, and often has two pair of gold mean-time screws. A "P"-grade balance staff may have two oil grooves and has the finest pivots. The wheel pivots are the finest used on the model.

Timely Regards,

Phil,
Woooo = 24j Bunn Special movement! What a beauty! Great shot as well, as usual Phil!!

Sheila, Here is a pic of a 21J Colonial R. Note that the luster has gone out of Waltham by this time, ie no damasceening, pressed jewels and the one piece train bridge. This is a 32.2 million SN which puts it at c 1945.

Tom

Jerry, Outstanding description, and even though I had to print it out so I can look up all those words, I did "get it" on the most part.
The added pictures will really help too. I bookmarked them so I can put all the info. together as a "set" Thank you, really good info.
I'm learning. (slow but sure)

Jim, I did go to the glossary, and I think that is what confused me. I got the Positions issue and the "almost always" gold, and wheels and things mixed up. Actually two different issues?? but not.
For a "Know Nothing" about parts and their purpose, I got confused. I now see the need for the gold wheel information too. I didn't put that together until I read it here.
Positions= Better. Thank you!
Tom, Your right, there IS a huge difference.
It's still a great looking watch, but doesn't hold a candle to the others. Thank you for the picture, makes for a wonderful comparison, and I get to see them too!
I really gotta find time to go through all of the sites that have these Pocket Watches on them. There are so many that there is just no excuse. Except..............