Hi!
This question has two reasons. First of all; I need to get this right for my self. And second of all; I have to convince my brother of what I believe is right.
Is the Studebaker at the photo the high grade "The Studebaker" or the lower grade "Studebaker". As far as I understand this mvt is no 229 "Studebaker" but not "The Studebaker". The "The Studebaker" was not equipped with metal dial, well this is, isn´t it?
Thanks in advance!
/Confused Bernhard

the dial

Bernhard,

The watch there is the 16s "Mail Order" STUDEBAKER, it is basically an upjeweled version of the 19-jewel 219. It is really not related to "The Studebaker", one of which is the 21-Jewel grade 229. Other "The Studebaker" models were the 18-size 329, 328 and 323 along with a 16-size 223. All of them say "The Studebaker" in script lettering on the movement. "Mail Order" STUDEBAKER's have block lettering and omit the word "the."

For one thing "The Studebaker" always came with a "South Bend" dial and as far as I know was always Enamel. Then there is the 16s "Mail Order" Studebaker which usually came with a metal dial and always had "STUDEBAKER" on the dial. I don't recall ever seeing an enamel "STUDEBAKER" dial, make sense?

Of course all 16s dials on South Bends are interchangable so you could find a "The Studebaker" with a metal dial from a "Mail Order" STUDEBAKER on it, even though that would be an incorrect pairing.

Best regards,

Frank "407" Kusumoto

Thanks Frank, just what I needed!
Best regards!
Bernhard

Bernhard,

Frank is correct, and I urge you to read the following...

In 1923 the "Studebaker Watch Company" was put together in order to market pocket watches, wristwatches and jewelry directly to the public through mail order advertising and jewelry catalogs. Since these watches were shipped direct, the buyer chose the case-style, movement and dial combination from mail order offerings. As the mail order Studebaker watches were launched in Pendant-Set "8-adjustment" versions of both 12 and 16-size, sales really took off, and nearly 95,000 were sold. These watches, confusion associated with them and the way they were marketed was a factor in the demise of the company, and they continue to cause no end of confusion for watch collectors even today.

It is important to understand the great difference between "The Studebaker" high-grade RR movements and "Studebaker" medium grade mail order watches. All of the aforementioned relatively inexpensive "8-adjustment" mail-order "Studebaker" watches were produced by South-Bend from 1923 through 1929 with "Studebaker" printed on a metal dial. These will have serial numbers consisting of 7 digits and beginning with a "1" in every instance. They were good watches, but not Railroad grade due to their being pendant-set. Although plate layout is similar and they are all clearly marked as South-Bend products, be careful not to confuse "mail-order Studebakers" with the far higher grade "The Studebaker" movements.

From "THE HISTORY OF SOUTH-BEND WATCHES"

To learn more about the South-Bend Watch Company and its products, click the link above.

Hope this helps,

Lindell

The way I remember the difference is: If it is engraved "Adjusted to 5 positions" and/or it is lever set, it is a The Studebaker. If it is engraved "8 Adjustments" and/or it is pendant set, it is a mail order Studebaker.
Also, in the example you showed, I believe that this case has an incorrect bow. The factory bows on the "Bulldog" style cases are distinctive and are hard to find today.

Thanks everyone.
The thing is, this watch belongs to my brother who received it from my father. Our father has donate a lot of really disireable watches both to my elder and my younger brother.
We all thought it was the high grade Studebaker until I became a member in this chapter a little bit over a year ago. I have ever since tried to tell them that this Studebaker is not the high grade one but they have had a hard time admit it. Thats why we took his particular mvt, pictured it and put it at this thread to get a statement from you, and we did, thanks a lot!

Lindell
I have been reading the story about South Bend that you have create, a few times and know what is written even if I have hard to uderstand every single word. A great essay for shore. Everybody with a pocket watch interest should read it.

Tom
The case shows a lot of brass on the back but the dust cover is still there.
Thanks to everybody again!
/Bernhard