A very good friend and collector in Elgin was rummaging in a shoebox at an antique shop in a nearby town and found several very STRANGE looking "Elgins". The two with the neatest Damaskeeniong include this 23 Jewel 18s . . .

and this 16s "three finger". There are more, some look sorta "Walthamy, but they do not have as fancy damaskeening. Any ideas?

You might call it an "Elgtham"

David,

Those are some real beauts...

Especially, photo #1

Dave what are those extra gears in photo 2

The #2 picture appears to be a prototype "convertible" design. To facilitate this, they added another wheel connecting the Crown Wheel to the Click Wheel. If you look at the plate cut, it looks like with a simple tool change the same movement could be finished for either Open of Hunter type use. The actual Elgin Convertible sold went the next mile and was actually "Convertible" from Open to Hunter by lifting that same cut style plate and exchanging the Crown wheel to the desired 12 or 3 O'Clock position.

Interesting first two movements something I have never seen before.

Products of watchmaking school??

John, we speculated that possibility, the platework of the top two must have been 4.0 students, or possibly carried out as an R&D effort at the school by said 4.0 people.

I must add that the "375xxx" series for these are known as R&D assigned serial numbers.

I would be suspect about the 3rd one but the first two one might conclude they were prototype or as Dave mentioned. The serial number puts this in line with a grade 166 but clearly it is not grade 166 full plate. It is doubtful that one day Elgin woke up one morning and made the 1901 model (more commonly called the Veritas model) such as the 214, 239, and 240 so there had to be some gyrations done in the R&D to get to the final select type. The first one does show some tinkering on a 3/4 type movement with a very large balance. The barrel plate looks as though they had taken a Hampden and cloned some of the parts, I am not sure what the chrome part is to the right of the barrel jewel.

It would be nice to see if a period correct Elgin dial would fit that 18s and to fire it up after it is in a case.

I would say whoever the owner is is lucky and I would not dismiss them as R&D prototypes. I have my lever set that is a 3rd run 150 by serial number that is not a grade 277 or a grade 150 since with the dial off it is a undeniable model 7 Elgin that is almost identical to every detail to a grade 181 with the dial off.

I would replace the missing parts and case them in time period cases and have something extremely rare to show off.

David when I looked at your first picture i thought i had bifocal problems or a stroke. The Elgtham looks like a cross between an Illinois Getty and a Hampden. Very interesting.

David-

Both of these look to have the possibility on the back for extra gears to run wind incators. anything on the dial side of these to confirm this? just asking as both look to have extra gears by the winding area, especially the second one where it looks to copy the indicator design on a 16s rockford indicator.

Jared

That 23 jewel, 18 size is probably the best looking Elgin I've ever seen