Hello All,
I recently purchased an 1888 B W Raymond 18S, 15J,
sidewinder, ser.# 2776492.
It was in a Waltham case which read Waltham Coin,
PAT. Apr.22.79. #1310 and a #4 in a box.
Could this be the original case for this watch ? Or, what cases were available and appropriate for this watch ?
Thanks for any and all help
Don

Donald, In the late 19th century "hunter" type movements were deliberately made with the winding stem emerging at 3 O'Clock so that when the movement was mounted in the intended "Hunter" case that was equipped with a hinged detent locking cover, the owner could "pop" it open by depressing the winding stem and read the time easily. An example of each type that passed through my collection are pictured below.

Later when the original case was worn beyond use, circumstances may have dictated that the owner chose a less expensive "Open Face" watch case which (with the Hunter style movement) still would have the winding stem at 3 O'clock, but no closed cover over the dial. When holding a Hunter type movement these are usually considered replacement for the Hunter movements original hunter case.

Much, much later the term, "Sidewinder" was invented by someone to explain this situation.

Your case which was probably a later replacement has considerable value now due to its being made from silver coins re-forged to make a watch case. These were made in the 1880's and were usually purchased with "Open Face" movements which would have the winding stem at 12 O'clock.

There are exceptions to this though and I cannot tell you if yours is an exception unless there is considerably more history for it.

Below from my past collection are coin silver cased Open Face (left) and 14K Gold filled Hunter Cased model 1883 (Right) to help clarify the point.

any screws mark on movement side of case
if not its original if yes is not .
call me and I will explain more.

David,
Thanks for the photos and the wealth of information.
I forgot to mention that this is a swing-out case. Also, what would you estimate the value of this coin case.
Thanks again for your help.
Don

Peter,
Thanks for the response Pete. I will call you later.
Don

Peter,
There are no additional screw marks on the case
Don

Don picture will help to estimate the value of the case also the weight of the case

Thanks Pete,
The weight is 4.3 oz., or 122 grams.
I will attempt to send some pictures.
Don

more pix

#3

#4

that is very nice case and I will estimate it at over $100 as is.

The lack of extra screw marks suggest that this hunter movement was put into a new open-face case after the original hunter case wore out, back in the day, making it what collectors call a "legitimate" or "original" replacement case.

The practice of recasing watches in secondhand cases is a recent development, something that would have been unheard of back in the day. You see, back then you could get a brand new coin case in any style you wanted at any jeweler for just a few dollars, so why would anyone want to use a secondhand case?

Thanks David, Peter, and Edward. I appreciate your time and effort. These are the things that make watch collecting enjoyable !!
Don

Donald your case is a 4 oz case and that rates a premium above the much more common 3 ounce case that was pretty much standard. There were 2 ounce cases also but they are relatively flimsy. I think your nice case is closer 125-150` in value.

Deacon,
Thanks for the response and information. I appreciate it.
Don

Don, in discussing your case which I agree could be a legitimate replacement case, we have ignored the beautiful adjusted RR Grade B.W. Raymond movement you have in the case!

This s/n2776492 is recorded by the Elgin Factory as a 17 Jewel Grade 27 B.W. Raymond produced c.a. 1887 when 17 jewels were more than enough to qualify for RR use, and the dial configuration (Open or Hunter) was not yet regulated. The fact that yours is 15 Jewels means little to the "in-grade" description of the watch as it IS marked "Adjusted" and is fitted with the Micro-regulator.

Elgin advertised B.W. Raymond models as; "Always built for Railroad time use" which in itself should validate the intended application of your watch.

So your watch could easily have been (re)cased in this valuable, heavy coin silver case deliberately by the (second?) owner for RR use.

The beautiful Fleur de Lis Hands are themselves quite valuable and I caution you to be very careful when opening the cover to set time.

i.e. you have a perfectly legitimate and very nice condition RR Grade watch that can be proudly described as a 19th century contribution to safer development of our exploding RR-supported economy of that period.

Dave,
Needless to say, You just made my day. This is one of the best watches in my collection.
Thank You for passing along all this information.
Don

David is right we all over looked the movement
and concentrated on the case .
Don keep it as is great watch clean movement and 4 oz silver case.

Pete,
I will treasure this watch for a long time.
Thanks, Don