I received a late Christmas present of a 12s 17j Waltham 'Colonial' pocket watch in a like marked 'Waltham Colonial' 14k goldfilled cushion shaped case.

The serial number is 23739397. Where can I find the pertinent information on date of manufacture etc? Any information would be appreciated.

Scratched in the inside of the back cover is the name Roy R. Crawford, Whitesburg, Kentucky, and no less than 5 jeweler's marks, so Mr. Crawford at least took care of his watch.

All in all a very nice acquisition, and very much appreciated. Needs a COA, and the case shows quite a bit of carry wear, but that's not unexpected. It has a good clear glass crystal.

Hope you all got something nice for Christmas too!

Regards! Mark

Hey Mark,According to my book,that would be a model 1894 Waltham,made in 1920. Hope that helps.

That sure does, Cecil! Thank you for taking the time to look it up! It's older than I expected!

Regards! Mark

It looks like the one on that page, Lindell, with the exception of the bow, which is oval. The engraving is well worn, but otherwise it's the same appearance and dial of the one pictured in Shugarts. Mr. Crawford must have been very proud of that watch based on the amount of 'carry wear'.

Regards! Mark

Whitesburg Ky is almost in the center between Hazard Ky and Big Stone Gap Va. That watch probably saw more than its fair share of bib overalls.

That's possible.

I've been through that area before (my wife is from Kentucky). Rough country. Coal mining country. Any watch carried in a bib overall would have its case completely destroyed in short order due to the dust and wear, especially a 14k gold filled case. This watch has wear, but nothing like what I've seen of miners watches over the years.

I wonder if Mr. Crawford was a merchant or a mine boss of some kind. In 1920 this would have been a fairly expensive watch for that part of the country. I'd say a miners 'Sunday-go-to-meeting' watch, but it would have been WAY too expensive to buy on a miners pay.

Interesting.


Regards! Mark

HOLY SMOKE!!!! I just did a Wiki search of Whitesburg, Ky, and look what I just found in the article!!

"One of its best-known features is an arched stone bridge designed by Roy Crawford, a local mining and civil engineer and land surveyor who was educated through the International Correspondence School and in about 1925 founded R. R. Crawford Engineering, a company that remains family owned and operated. The bridge was built in 1938 across the North Fork of the Kentucky River."

This watch could have been acquired by Mr. Crawford 5 years before he started his company in 1925.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitesburg,_Kentucky

A little more research shows a Roy Crawford is still the owner of the Whitesburg, KY co. (grandson?), but he lives in Johnson City, TN. At least that offers a Tennessee connection, but Johnson City is quite a ways from South Central Tennessee.

Interestinger and interestinger.

Regards! Mark

Mark - that is neat that you found info on Mr. Crawford! He appeared to be a prominent businessman of Whitesburg. That could explain him having a better pocket watch than what others in the area typically could afford.

With the advent of online sales, it is not surprising that items are found far from their home. I just bought a private label movement from Maine and the seller is in Alaska! Now that one has traveled.

Good point, Mary Ann.

My wife and I were just talking about this, and we theorize that there's a good chance the 3rd generation decided to get rid of grandpa's belongings (it happens a lot around here anymore ), and it probably traveled over road to our location, as it's not that far away from home as a 'crow flies'.

So, it may have been picked up at an estate sale, or an antique store/auction, then came west with the buyer to their shop. All theory, of course.

I wonder if they had a clue the original Mr. Crawford had hand scratched his name and location in the back of his old watch. I kind of doubt it.

Regards! Mark

I bought an Elgin wristwatch that was personalized on the back and it makes one wonder why a family member just give away or sale off items that one would think would have great meaning. It is a little bit of a jog from that part of KY to middle TN, I used to date a girl from Colonial Heights (outside of Kingsport) while I was attending UT so I know the eastern part of TN fairly well, I co-oped at a company in Columbia TN so I have done some traveling around that part of TN also.

The primary reasons I could see for selling off Grandpa's watch is the current generation had no interest in it, as Mark suggested, or they needed money and had to sell it. Then it begins it's journey...

I have bought a lot of watches with engravings from family members & I think the main reason they sell them is they have no interest in them. Some times when I ask questions about the prior owner about all they can recall is it was there grandfather & perhaps they can recall where he lived. Most the time it would appear this distant relative is more like a stranger to them.

Tom

Sad. Sometimes it feels like we're doing rescues of individuals history rather than just collecting pocket watches. Apparently this R.R. Crawford was a true self made man, and rated mention in their town history due to a bridge he built and still stands to this day.

Well, at least this little Waltham is safe again and off the shelf before a 'steam punk' fan or scrapper found it and tore it apart...

Hopefully I can get a COA on it in the near future, but until that time, it's residing safely in my watch box 'as we speak'.

Regards! Mark

Mark

If you are interested on Mr. Crawford

According to the 1920 census for West Whitesburg, Letcher, Ky he was born about 1896 in Ky & was listed as a civil engineer. He was married to Rema & at that time they had a 1 year old daughter Virginia.

Tom

Thanks Tom! Puts even more of a 'human hand' around this Waltham for me.

So, one daughter, but no son at the time of the 1920 census. Well, one had to come along later in order for the name 'Crawford' to continue.

Regards! Mark

This looks like it might be his WWI Draft Card

Looks like his father was Calaway Crawford who was born March of 1865 in Ky, in 1900 he was living in Rock House, Letcher, Ky. & was a school teacher. His wife was Mary & they had son Roy & Edison.

You're amazing, Tom!

The Clinchfield Coal Corp. also owned and operated the Clinchfield Railroad, if memory serves me correctly.

Regards! Mark

I am trying to find a son but so far I can't find Roy in 1930. It would appear that in 1920 he & his wife were counted on the census twice, perhaps they moved from his parents house to their own during the year & got polled twice. I found both of them living with his parents in 1920 & Roy is listed as a civil engineer in that census too. If you are interested this is who it shows living in the house;
Caloway C.
Mary spouse
Roy son
Gay son
May daughter
Emmette son
Kelly son
Daisy daughter
Lilly daughter
Champ son
Ruth daughter
Ford son
Rena Sister-in-law ( I think it should be daughter-in-law)
Virginia granddaughter
John Hall servant

There were several Roy R. Crawford's living in Whitesburg
Roy R. Crawford the IV born Aug of 1974, was living in Whitesburg in 1993

Roy R. Crawford born Sept 1951 living in Whitesburg in 1993.

This one is probably Roy R. the II, he was born in 1925 & died March 21, 1994, he resided in Letcher County. I am positive it is your Roy's son, just found where he was born Nov. 2, 1924 in Letcher County & his mother was Reva Lewis.

Very good! That's where the lineage continues to Johnson City, TN.

Thanks Tom!

HIGH regards! Mark

Hi Mark,

Looks like you found another interesting watch, As always let me know if you need it COA

With every generation, one has twice the number of forebears: two parents, four grandparents, 8 great grandparents, 16 great great grandparents, etc. Hence, it's easy to see why heirlooms of a few or more generations back might no longer be of material sentimental interest to someone today. For example, great grandfather's watch is an artifact of only 1/8th of a person's heritage, and belonged to someone most likely remembered, if at all, only as a name.

I have many watches that once must have had great sentimental value, watches inscribed "A present from Grandma," "From Papa," "For Fifty-two Years of Faithful Service," "To Uncle Fred," "Mother to Dudley," "from his Wife, X'mas '94," "From James F. Oyster, Christmas 1922," "To Paul on his twenty-first birthday July 9, 1943 with affection and my regard, Dad," "George,from his Pal Cy, 4/3/43" (on a gold watch built into a hotel master key), "To My Pal George from Cy, April 4, 1944" (this time on a Patek Philippe), "To My Wife, Christmas 1890," "Christmas Gift, 1888," "Ferris, from Cousin Mamie," "Aunt Bertha to Luther," etc. As sentimental attachments became diluted with time, these all passed into my hands.

Only once have I bought a watch from a descendent with whom I spoke. "It belonged to my grandfather," he told me, speaking of a a spectacular platinum and diamond Cartier. "He was the greatest developer of skyscrapers in NY in the 1920s. The depression ruined him. I inherited little else from him but his watch. It's been in my safe deposit box for 60 years. It's beautiful, but I don't use it. How long can one hold on to things."

Most of us have had to deal with a deceased parent's or relative's estate. How many sentimental items can one keep? Who will want many mementos of us? I have the gold wristwatch my parents gave me a a junior high school graduation gift, my grandmothers red gold wristwatch, my father's old Omega Seamaster de Ville, each uglier than the last, but I cannot bear to get rid of them. My heirs will not hesitate.

Mark

I found more on Roy's wife, I am not real positive on the name. I found a family tree which lists all that I have posted on Roy R. as to his parents etc. It shows he was born October 2, 1895 in Colson Letcher Ky. & died June 22, 1959 in Whitesburg. She was Clerinda Rachel Lewis born Dec. 9, 1898 in Partridge Letcher Ky & died Jan 16, 1957 in Mayking Letcher Ky.

Her father was Isaac Newton Lewis & her mother was Elizabeth Fairchild.

There son was Roy Raymond Crawford born Nov 2, 1924 in Whitesburg & he died March 21, 1994 in Mayking. He was married to someone by the last name of McIntyre. He was also married to a Nancy Whitaker born in 1930 & died in 1995. He & Nancy had 8 children that are listed as living.

One more thing.

It appears that your Roy Raymond Crawford was either married twice to a Lewis or she went by both names. Clerinda Rachel Lewis & Rena Lewis, maybe Rena is short for Clerinda

Also if you follow this link it is a book on the history of Ky & it mentions Clerinda's father & her marriage to Roy;

http://books.google.com/books?...e&q=crawford&f=false

It is on page 575

quote:

Hi Mark,

Looks like you found another interesting watch, As always let me know if you need it COA

MUCH appreciated, Chris! I'll send it down next week, if that's ok.

As with all families in Kentucky during that period of time, Tom, it appears it was HUGE! That was the same thing in my wife's family as well. Amazing history there, and here I now own the watch of the man who started the company that still exists and bears his name. As Chris says, yet another 'interesting' watch has come into my hands.

Ethan, so far my wife and I have instilled the importance of items like these in our daughters. They have identified more than one item in my collection that is 'theirs'....come to think of it, just about EVERYTHING has been identified as 'theirs', and we're only in our 50's! LOL! So, at least one more generation of my family will be holding onto our heirloom pieces. You can only work on one generation at a time.

Thanks to Tom Brown, he fleshed out the background information of my Great great Uncle's Dueber Special. I knew it had family history, but now it has a complete history of the man who carried it, and I now all that information to pass along to the girls when THEY 'get it'.

Thank you all for your information, and interest. This is a great hobby, and community to share it with.

HIGH regards! Mark

I also found the same Roy R Crawford that was 24 in the 1920 Census that is listed as an Engineer, born in 1896. and if you would like a copy, I can pass it on to you.

Did you know that there is a

Roy T Crawford Road? it's listed too.

Nice information to add to your watch.

Hi Sheila! Where in the WORLD have you been hiding! GREAT to see you!

Man, those Crawfords were sure busy folks up in that area, weren't they? We have several Crawfords around these parts. I wonder if they're an offshoot?

Regards! Mark

Mark when I asked my daughter if there were certain watches she wanted her reply was "which ones are worth the most", so I guess she gets the ones worth the most and my son gets the bottom of barrel ones. After that I decided on plan B on who gets what. My parents always tried to share some of the history of things with their kids so after they passed we kept most of the items they felt were memorable valuable, I have my dad's watch which I hope my son values it as much as I do.

I'm trying to write down the history and keep it with each watch when it comes to a family piece, or one with this kind of 'provenence'.

My kids love history, so as long as I can put a personal history with a watch, they appreciate them more.

Regards! Mark

Well, The only information on them is in Kentucky and TENNESSEE. So I bet they are all related.

I keep the information on all my watches too.

The only watch I have as a family heirloom, is a womans wristwatch, and it doesn't work.

I want to get it serviced but it's the only watch that I can't stand to give to anyone.

Weird huh?

Old business new again!

I just got a phone call from the grandson of Mr. Crawford. Apparently they are still located in Whiteburg, KY, and in doing a google search about the family, this site and post popped up in their search.

He was not aware this watch even existed, and we are going to be exchanging emails directly.

It is my wish to return the watch to its rightful place, and will be sending it home as soon as I have an address from Mr. Crawford.

So, my friends, looks like 'we' collectively will be reuniting a heirloom to a family one more time.

I'll update as things progress.

Regards !Mark