Hello group, I will be attending a antique auction tomorrow & this watch is listed. A 992B with the original box. I am not familar with the dial on this watch. It is a single sunk dial, but I can not make out what it says. Is it a traffic special? I thought they were Swiss. It has a nice BOC #2 case. I have not seen this box before either. I'm confused... Any thoughts? Thanks, Jim
Posts: 273 | Location: New York in the USA | Registered: May 28, 2008
James, a simple thing to check, if the box is actually for the watch it will have an old penned serial number marked on it that matches that of the watch. I will leave it to the Hamilton experts to advise you of the dial and box details.
Posts: 6492 | Location: Southern California in the USA | Registered: July 19, 2007
Assuming the dial to be original to the movement and using it as a beginning point, that is a very late 1940s through early 1950s number 168 melamine dial. Single-Sunk melamine dials like this were used for only a short period and the design is unmistakable. Follow Tom's link to several other 992B examples with dials identical to this one. The case is a late design Hamilton Case Model 2 and the ebony hands also point to that same era. This watch will most probably turn out to be a correct 992B from all we can see.
Now to the box, it is of circa 1930 design predating the watch by a score of years and therefore not related to this particular watch in any way. I would base my bid solely on the watch and see the box as something that although having some value in its own right it merely comes along for the ride. David is correct that this box originally was marked with a description of the watch that came in it. Look to see if it is defaced to disguise that fact or perhaps falsified to have some bogus reference to the watch.
Use caution and do not be misled by that "N.O.S." stuff.
Hope this is of help to you.
Lindell
Posts: 10553 | Location: Northeastern Ohio in the USA | Registered: November 19, 2002
Thanks Lindell & Tom, Thanks for the info! I always use caution when buying at auction. How do I price this compared to a "regular" 992B? Seeing that this dial was used for a short period, are they more valuable compared to the double sunk? To me, melamine was a little bit of a negative. Is this a desirable dial? Lindell, how can one tell that this is a "late" design #2 case? Thanks again, Jim
Posts: 273 | Location: New York in the USA | Registered: May 28, 2008
This is as "regular" a 992B as you're likely to find. The style number 168 dial is simply one of several available at that time. Many collectors prefer a Double-Sunk design, still others want a marginal minutes or Montgomery dial. The most serious collectors want one of each. I would neither add or deduct for this one. Always remember that all Hamilton 992B dials from 1949-50 until the final post-production examples in 1970 were melamine. To be authentic these later watches must front a melamine dial.
I mentioned the short period that style dial was available to explain how I arrived at my impression about the watch most likely being original and therefore not related to what would then be a considerably older box. Follow the link Tom provided and you will see the lowest price for a 992B in Gold-Filled Case at this time was $71.50 and Ed shows examples of that price tag as well as verification of correct number ranges.
Based upon that, expect this movement to be numbered in approximately the C200000 through C375000 range and the case to be something like J0075000 through J375000 if the combination is original. But again don't accept that New-Old-Stock line because to be N.O.S. the original box or boxes must be there as well. Someone thought they could put that unrelated box with it and pass it off so that means you sharpen your senses and examine everything about this one even more carefully.
Later Case Model 2 after the 1920s have the plain shoulders and by the late 1940s have the less distinct pendant markings both seen on this case, but look for a "J-prefix" on the case number as indicated above
Have fun at the auction and show us what you bring home.
Lindell
Posts: 10553 | Location: Northeastern Ohio in the USA | Registered: November 19, 2002
Thanks guys! very helpful... As they say "I did not just fall off the turnip truck". I will go over it the same as I do every watch. There is also what appears to be a Ball/Hamilton 21j 999 & some others. Also some wristwatches including one 14k Omega. There is one watch there that I have never owned & I was wondering what the market might be. It is a 21j Prince of Wales Plymouth Watch Co. (Rockford). It's a two star watch but that does not mean it's valuable. Shugart's say's $300-700. Any truth to that? Well I am off to the preview to give them a real good once over. The auction is this evening. I will post the outcome of the sale & any photos if I pick up anything.. Best, Jim
Posts: 273 | Location: New York in the USA | Registered: May 28, 2008
Just got back from the preview. The Hamilton is really nice & shows very little signs of any wear. The movement has never seen a tool & is near mint, as is the dial. The case back still retains it's original brush marks & no jeweler's mark's inside the case. The serial number is C389262 & the case #J386330. The 1930's box has no watch info. There is no label attached. The Plymouth & Ball are both nice watches too. We'll see what happens....
Posts: 273 | Location: New York in the USA | Registered: May 28, 2008
As for the Prince of Wales watch, according to Roy Ehrhardts book, there were 650 made as Grade 101S which Rockford W. Co. "burped out" in 50 - 100 piece lots for sales by Sears as Plymouth Watch Co., "Prince of Wales" models.
If you can get one that one for anything close to the $300.00 Shugart book estimate, you stole it!
Posts: 6492 | Location: Southern California in the USA | Registered: July 19, 2007
Good morning group, I ended up buying the 992B, the Prince of Wales & the Ball. I also bought a 12s Howard & a Hamilton 910 in it's box. The Rockford is very impressive. The 992B looks like it was never worn. Movt. is mint & has never had a tool taken to it. They are all in excellent condition. I think I'm pleased. I'll post photos shortly. Thanks for all the help... Jim
Posts: 273 | Location: New York in the USA | Registered: May 28, 2008
Beautiful recovery work and pictures Jim. That model 6/7 Rockford is sooooo close in appearance to a a Model 9 Elgin. Incredible what a few small changes in plate cuts will do to the styling of a watch!
Posts: 6492 | Location: Southern California in the USA | Registered: July 19, 2007
I have ever seen!