Here is an Elgin transitional watch that I wrote to the NAWCC Answer Box about in 1995. The serial number is 345072. It is an 18 size grade 97 model 1 that dates to about 1875. The thing that puzzled me about it was that it was unmarked and had more than the 7 jewels that were specified in the Elgin book for this model.

The Answer Box referred my 8inquiry to Mr. Meggers, himself. He stated that he would like to see under the dial because he was puzzled by the setting mechanism, as well as the other issues stated above. I asked my watch repairman to remove the dial so that I could take a photo of the bottom plate.

Bill speculated that either the watch had been made as a special order that had been cancelled, or some watchmaker at the Elgin factory had jeweled the watch up and taken it home, but the setting mechanism was of special interest to him.

He said that it was the oldest type of stem winding mechanism that Elgin had made. He called it "a marvel of complexity" and "was soon replaced by the second type." For this reason, he said, "this first type is scarce and seldom seen."

The fact that this was a patented Elgin invention led him to speculate that the watch had been made as a special order that was cancelled, but he could not say why the watch was not then marked "Elgin." He said that without seeing the original factory records, we would never know.

Personally, I kind of like the idea that some Elgin worker had jeweled the watch up and applied the stem winding mechanism before sneaking it into his lunch box. There is a story with personality!

Steve, you have a rare piece indeed! The rather complex and fragile planetary gear setting mechanism is one that I only have some parts movements for and nothing as complete as yours.

I think that the un-marked set that includes the dial takes the "some worker upjeweled and put it in his (her?) lunch box" definetely out of the equation.

It would be very difficult for someone to match all that up including the unmarked dial which is maker- signed and I expect represents part of a prototype movement.

The "true" 11 Jewel movement with the jeweling in "pairs" for the 4th and Escape wheels was definetely done by plan. I would venture a guess that this is an actual factory test watch that may have been carried around by a salesman and finally left at some "favorite" Jeweler customer's shop or as a gift to someone of note.

Well now, that is an even more interesting speculation, and the most logical one yet. Thanks a lot!

When I asked my watchmaker to take the dial off so that I could take a photograph under the dial he was surprised because the dial feet were held on with two pins and one screw. I guess it is unusual.

Tha about "cinch's it" for this being an experimental or "first run" watch. The extra plate complications and machining to install the wind and set works eliminated the possibility to easily pin that particular dial foot, and on your top plate view you can see where they tappped through from the side to secure that dial foot with the screw. I believe that you have a rare prototype "transition" movement that takes Elgins from the KWKS to Pendant wind lever setting watches.
The "book" lists this 1 of only 600 "Grade 19 movements ever made which were Lever set instead of Key Wind. That being the case, I have little doubt that this was part of a small run used for samples and testing.

I would see of Mr Briska or the Elgin Historical Society could help find any more information about this.

Thanks a million. Maybe I could even identify who this person was who initialed the back of the dial.