Can I get some help from the experts on the Illinois?

I have this movement, and I have info that says the serial number is a 19 Jewel, 3 position movement.

This one is a 17Jewel 4 Position movement.

Thank you for any help!

Regards,
Larry

Larry...here's that info we talked about.

Hi Lawrence,
In the encyclopedia it has a 17j Adj 4 pos. Open face, with 21,125 made, Gr 706.Mdl 9.
Hope this helps,
Bill

Thanks Tom.

Which encyclopedia Bill?

I cannot seem to find it in the Price Guide.

Regards,
Larry

Hi Larry,
Its the American Pocket watches, Illinois Watch Co. encyclopedia and price guide, volume 2. They are getting hard to find and are quite pricey on the auction site if they do show, They are not gospel but are pretty good with most info on Illinois watches.
Bill

Ok Bill, I have one, and when I look at the serial numbers on page 399, I see numbers from 3293001 to 3294000. Then after it says, Lever set, Open Face, 19 Jewels, model 9, Grade 706. It doesn't give the number of adjustments, but it does say 19 Jewels, and mine says 17 Jewels.

That is what is throwing me off.

Regards,
Larry

Hi Larry,
It could be that I am mis-interpeting the book, but if you go to p 140, where it talks about the Grade 706, it does talk about the 17j 4 position Mdl 9. watch.
You are right that when you go to p.399, and just look at the serial numbers, thats as far as it goes.
Bill

I believe the streetcar Grade 706 came in 17/19/21 Jewel configurations, with no examples of the 21J being seen. All of the O/F Model 9 watches in Grade 706 had the same narrow damaskeened pattern with black filled engravings and with jewels in raised settings with a GCW and rounded spoke train wheels. Early examples had the grade number stamped on the movement and were adj 4 positions. It is thought that the 17J watches are marked 4 positions, 19J watches were marked 3 positions, and 21J watches [unseen] are marked Adj to Temperature and positions.

According to the Vol 2 Illinois book the serial number is designated to a 19J watch. That could be a typo that hasn't been corrected in the book. It could be a factory assembled error where the wrong bridge was put on the train wheel. It could also be a parts watch assembled from different bridges sometime in it's history.

Whatever the reason, I wouldn't put too much into it as it's not going to be something proven or a variant. Of the three reasons given above, probably any one will not add great value over the price of a Grade 706 watch. It is interesting to a point.... Some collectors assemble PL watches, some collectors assemble anomalies in different collectables and that's where such a watch as this will gravitate towards. First thing would be to check any numbers on parts upon dis-assembly and go from there.

My personal experience with anomalies has not added a great deal of value to grades that aren't already revered amongst collectors. But as said, they are always interesting nonetheless.

regards,
bb

Thanks Buster, I did take it apart and all the numbers match, so that at least, is a good thing, I guess.

I was buying this one for a customer, and it is not as discribed, and he doesn't want it. I was just trying to decide if I wanted it rather than sending it back.

I appreciate everyones help here! Thank you.

Regards,
Larry

Lawrence, until you find a second case screw, I suggest you take the one near the winding stem and replace it to the bottom screw location to better secure the movement before it suffers an inglorious exit while you are taking off the crystal bezel.

You know it's funny Dave I thought that too, but it is nice and tight. I did put one in it though.

To bad it didn't have all the right screws in the movement. Those are a little hard to find

Here is another one.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/FANTAS...&hash=item416910e597
Regards, Krister.

Thanks Krister.

Regards,
Larry

I've got one of those too. Mine also says "Time King" on it. Brad

I have 3556398 which is marked and damaskeened identical to Larry's.

Mine is housed in a nice 20 year Philadelphia yellow gold case, and the dial is DS enamel with red dot 5 minute markers. The watch has plum colored spade & poker hands.

According to pocketwatchdatabase.com it is one of a run of 510 built in 1919.

I just sold a 19 and a 17 jewel on ebay. Auctions ended 8/7. They each brought under $100. FYI

I have 3786814 marked as "Time King" damaskeened like Larry's with the same dial as Joe's.