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Help me find my 21 Ruby Vanguard in the book "Click" to Login or Register 
IHC Member 1736
posted
I bought this watch 'cause it's purdy, has lots of jewels and gold inlay, came with a nice chain and a case that tells a story...

I tried to look it up but it doesn't seem to fit the definitions for Vanguards on page 119 of volume 31. Neither does it fit the definitions for AmWWCo 21j's.

Best I can tell, it is:
1899 AmWWco Vanguard 21 Ruby RGJS ADJ Safety Barrel SW/LS/OF
Keystone 14kgf JBoss 20yr screw case w/graceful Arabic double sunk dial.

Thanks a mil,


Engraved OF


 
Posts: 2032 | Location: San Diego, California in the USA | Registered: August 30, 2012
Picture of Peter Kaszubski
posted
post serial # it will be great help.
 
Posts: 4395 | Location: Arizona in the USA | Registered: July 23, 2011


posted
You got yourself a Model 1892 Waltham
 
Posts: 7178 | Location: Illinois in the USA | Registered: November 11, 2011
IHC Member 1736
posted
I love the story this watch tells. It has been recommended that I enjoy carrying the watch as long as it continues to run strong and keep time within seconds a day... rather than restore it and risk detracting from the character it has.


Engraved OF


 
Posts: 2032 | Location: San Diego, California in the USA | Registered: August 30, 2012
IHC Member 1736
posted
SN - 9007597
I ran the serial number and understand it is an 1892. But the Vanguard came is several levels of fit and finish, most are adj 5posit DR. This watch does not seem to fit the descriptions.

Could be a training issue for the new guy... :-)


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Posts: 2032 | Location: San Diego, California in the USA | Registered: August 30, 2012
Picture of Peter Kaszubski
posted
I found this

First: 9005951 Last: 9009000
Model: 1892
Material: P
Grade: Vanguard,
Size: 18
Plate: FP Plate:
Jewelling: Jewels: 21
Balance: Bal: Pat. Reg. - Breg.
 
Posts: 4395 | Location: Arizona in the USA | Registered: July 23, 2011
posted
Hi Paul,
You can find your watch in "the book" on page 119. As you can see, there are 5 choices for 21 jewel Model 1892's. Your watch does not have a wind indicator, it is Not a HC (hunter cased) model, and it is Not PS (pendant set). That leaves 2 possibilities: OF (open face), and "diamond end stone".

The end stone refers to the visible jewel on the regulator. Your stone LOOKS clear in your picture, so MAYBE it MIGHT be a diamond. If a diamond, these often had a few cut facets that could be seen with some magnification. If you need to know if its a diamond for sure, I'd suggest you take it to a jeweler or gemologist.

Very nice, RR quality watch you have there; love the chain as well. I have a modest collection of Model 1892 Walthams.
 
Posts: 803 | Location: Knoxville, Tennessee in the USA | Registered: September 02, 2009
posted
Paul, by 1891 Waltham had named its newest model the Vanguard, and even though it didn't hit the market until 1894 it would go down in history as the Model 1892. Waltham made the movement in six other named grades - Appleton Tracy & Co, Crescent St, Royal, PS Bartlett, Riverside, and the 845 - so the Vanguard became another named grade of the Model 1892.

The Vanguard is the only Model '92 made in 17, 19, 21 and 23 jewel movements. In my opinion they are among the most gorgeous examples of American horology ever made (except for Seth Thomas Big Grin).

I offer one of my Model 92s, a 21j Vanguard like yours:

 
Posts: 2962 | Location: Western New York in the USA | Registered: March 24, 2008
IHC Member 1736
posted
I got a bit confused because my Vanguard does not say 5 positions anywhere on the movement. Do I assume it is adjusted to 5 positions?

All other examples I've seen look more like Eric's watch. And the book does not list a 21J Vanguard that is simply adjusted. All of them specifically list Adj.5P

This is great fun. Many thanks to Dave Abbe for bringing me aboard.


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Posts: 2032 | Location: San Diego, California in the USA | Registered: August 30, 2012
posted
Hi Paul and welcome here,
You're watch is adjusted to 5 positions, they did have diffrent markings the early ones did not say the number, andsome had 5 pos and some had 6 pos.
Bill
 
Posts: 1278 | Location: British Columbia in Canada | Registered: May 19, 2008
posted
We can always trust Eric to go to BAT for Seth Thomas watches. Smile
 
Posts: 803 | Location: Knoxville, Tennessee in the USA | Registered: September 02, 2009
posted
And I love Eric's photography and those beautiful two tone watches.

Eric, how do you do your photography, if you are willing to share?
 
Posts: 301 | Location: Ogallala, Nebraska in the USA | Registered: August 27, 2005
IHC Life Member
Picture of David Abbe
posted
Welcome again to IHC185 Paul. Joining together to research this watch is certainly one of the benefits we all share here as members.

When Paul showed me this watch, I will witness that this watch with gem cut Diamond Endstones on BOTH sides of the Balance wheel jewel set should "book" at least $400.00, albeit the case is worn, but the movement is a very well used and maintained "vet" of the rails.

Paul's watch is the more rare "early" model 1892 design with;
2-piece winding "Click"
solid gold patent microadjust wheel
2 screw retained barrel bridge.

The placement of the case screws are therefore quite different from the later Gooseneck microadjusted, 3 screw barrel bridge 1892 models such as that pictured above by Eric.

As a running watch, with 270 deg. arc on the balance and running virtual RR time, my advise to Paul was two-fold;
A. Enjoy it "as-is" until it was not keeping good time.
2. Find a Gold Plater who could re-do (outside only) the back cover.

The # of positions adjusted markings were not required on 1899 production watches and so the watch Co. chose to just mark "adjusted" in the remaining space after mentioning the Ruby Jeweling.
 
Posts: 6492 | Location: Southern California in the USA | Registered: July 19, 2007
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