Now that I finally have two nice Father Time Elgins, I thought I was all done going after any more Elgins. That was until I found an 18s 21J lever set 181! These are kind of an unusual movement, low production, has a really beautiful and different damaskeen pattern, looks like a combination of bright nickel and sort of a frosted look around the outside, fancy gold lettering, gold settings and balance screws, this one even has a pair of meantime screws! Unusual for an Elgin, most don't have them. This one has the original DS AN RR dial, with the Old English signature, in a 20 Year Philadelphia case, not original but correct style, has some wear to the design on the back, but no major brass, just a little on bow & pendant from winding. I'm happy to have this work of art. Now I'm really done trying for any more Elgin RR's!!

Quote "Now I'm really done trying to find any more Elgin RR's!!"

Famous last words Theodore!

Roger

I know, right!

Of course, now you need an HH Taylor, and a few BW Raymonds........maybe a Veritas or two!
"Hello, I am Theodore, and I am a RR pocket watch addict".
Go ahead and say it, you're among friends who understand that the struggle is real!

Thanks Bob, I 've had this "addiction" about all my life, no known cure.... take care, Ted.

...And if you don't have INDICATORS you have barely begun.



Don

the first step is to admit you are powerless....

Where do I sign up ?

I'm always interested in new and interesting models of the Elgin 18 size "Veritas" grade watches. I presently have four watches of this type.

Here's three of them. The one on the left is a Grade 240 "B.W.Raymond" in mint condition, in the middle is a Grade 239 "Veritas" made in the first production year of 1901, finally on the right is a very nice Grade 367 "Father Time" with a private label from a Canadian jeweler and watch inspector for the Temiskaming and Northern Ontario railroad.

Here's the fourth of my Elgin "Veritas" type watches. It's a Grade 240 "B.W. Raymond" with a winding indicator feature.

This is the only watch for which I have any provenance. It was a watch used by my maternal uncle, Henry Word. I found a payroll record that showed him working for the El Paso & Southwestern Railway. The record indicated that he was a "messenger" and dated the record to April, 1918.

This watch has been restored with the "correct" material and a NOS case acquired on eBay that matched the original B&B Royal case.

Hello James, nice collection.
Interesting to see the T&NO reference. My Grandfather worked for the Temiskaming & Northern Ontario for about 45 years and then my Father also from the late 1960's, and by then the name had changed (1946) to the Ontario Northland (ONR)

Regards
Rick

Hi Rick,

Thanks for your reply. I was able to research the private label of my Grade 367 "Father Time" watch and found some information was available.

Gerald C. Thompson was an upstanding member of the community in North Bay, Ontario and was the official watch inspector for the Temiskaming & Ontario Railway at the time this watch was sold.

I wonder if your Grandfather may have purchased his own railroad watch from Mr. Thompson...

Jim

Hello Jim, my grandfathers watch is a 23 jewel Veritas grade 214 circa 1912. The Province of Ontario received Royal Assent for the T&NO Railway Act March 1902. My Grandfather did not start
work for the T&NO until about 1920 or so.
Although they did live in North Bay and in about 1923 moved north 120 miles the a small RR town of Englehart and the back to North Bay some years later around 1945/50 I think. He was a Conductor at that time so there is an off chance he may have purchased the watch used from Thompson Jewelers at some time.

Regards
Rick

Very nice Elgins you have there Jim! I really like the dial on that Father Time. I was never a huge Elgin fan, but they grew on me, and now I appreciate what a nice watch they are.I only have one Veritas model B.W. Raymond 19j. 240, but it's a beauty with a perfect Montgomery dial. I have 2 455 16s BWR's, 370 and 372 BWR's, a 180 18s BWR, a 149 Father Time and a later 454 16s F.T., and now this 181. Also have an Overland and a full plate 3 position with a sharp DS 24 hr.Canadian private label dial. I guess I am an "addict" ! Regards, Ted.

Here is a Hamilton Grade 940 with a Hamilton dial, the movement is marked "The Thomas Co. Bracebridge, North Bay,and Sturgeon Falls, Ont."

Barrel Bridge close up

Hi Theodore,

I sort of fell into collecting Elgin 18 size watches after I acquired the Grade 240 winding indicator watch that was from my mother's family.

I like the 3/4 plate Elgin 18 size movements with their nice damaskeening. They're also undervalued, in my opinion, compared to some other railroad collectable watches, especially the Illinois watches.

Here's a better view of the dial on my Grade 367 Private Label watch.

Thanks Jim, that is a nice watch! I agree, their prices are a little better than Illinois and Hamilton, for just as nice a watch. I am mainly Waltham and Hampden, most of my collection is those two.Thanks again!

Thanks Ted, I recently acquired a nice Hampden "John C. Dueber Special" 17 jewel watch from 1896 and that is the first Hampden watch I have.

After I purchased my Hampden watch I became interested in the relationship between the Dueber-Hampden watch company and Webb C. Ball.

Jim, I have many RR grade Hampden's,they are overlooked by many to this day.A couple of years ago I finally got a nice John C. Dueber 21J 16s, kind of a rare one.Pics of it are in our Hampden section.I've since recased it into a nice YGF Dueber case...I think a Ball- Hampden would be nice to have, but apparently few and far between, and very expensive! I think John Dueber and Webb Ball were cut from the same mold, both tough hard-nosed business men.Thanks again, Ted.

Ted think of a grade 181 as a grade 150 that started out as a lever set without being adapted (as in the case of the 277). Many of the 181s had dmk effects that were very close or identical toe the grade 150's/277's. I think if you start jumping into the pit of wind indicators those will be 3/4 plate 18s, off the top of my head I can't think of a full plate Elgin wind indicator. If you think you can find Elgins that you have not seen before hop on the UK Ebay site and try to find one of each of these grades (below) they are so rare that even Wayne could not describe them. One is a hunter the other the open face mate, 16 size 17j adjusted movements both pendant sets. That is the same way I feel with both Elgins and Hampdens, think I got nearly all of them and another variation pops up, and that sticking only to the 16 or 18 size. The 181 is a great movement, high quality and nice looking.

474 300 1 1922 1922 ? 16s ????p ?j
475 300 1 1921 1921 ? 16s ????p ?j

Thanks Claude.I will never own any wind indicators, to be honest I could never afford one. I'm about to retire soon, that will pretty much put the kibosh to my watch activities! I just saw a nice 150 lever set on the big auction site, they are gorgeous!

Ted about the same for me, I will probably retire in a year or two and figure out what I will do then. I have not looked on ebay for watches for a bit and I probably need to cull some of the duplicates while the economy is good. End of this month I turn 64 and technically can't do full retirement until 66yrs 2mos. I have been lucky and picked up a few wind indicators when the prices were down in the 500 range.

You and I are in the same boat, Clyde. Same age, but my my birthday is in a week.

Unlike you, I don't have any duplicates to cull, and my collection is about 'one of each', with the exception of a couple 992B's.

Regards! Mark

I am trying awful hard not to look for any more watches on the bay, I have a little less than a year before I can push the retirement button.Hard to resist the temptation, though.I have several non -runners that I want to get too.I have about 6 right now that had mainsprings let go.My luck with them hasn't been good. Like Mark, I have been able to get about 1 each of the most popular RR's, and most of the Hampdens I could afford. I'm going to be just thankful that I got most of them back before the prices got so high...Thanks, Ted.

Ted, dont look at any of these...LOL

This is an unmarked Grade 274 3/4 plate 21J Hunter
Only about 4000 total of all unmarked, marked 274, Father Time, BWR, and Veritas Grade 274 Hunters were ever made

Tom , you have an eye for nice ones !

Thanks, Kevin! As Lindell says,
"Buy The Best You can Afford"

And as far as these Elgins, and other similiar watches go, most are VERY affordable!

A lot of people would not believe just how affordable these actually are!

Some people would be surprised how little more these cost than say a common railroad watch, and IMO this method is how I always collected and try to make people aware that for a few dollars more they too can own some of the finest American railroads ever produced. At least that is my perspective.

That's a beauty Tom! Have never seen that grade before.Fully marked to boot!Whoever gets that will have a real nice one of the few around....Ted.

That's a beautiful Elgin Grade 274 hunting case watch Tom!

Mark, it appears we are close in the same month boat, my birthday is the last day of May. I started tagging all of my watches and after some time I was thinking, "Geez I have a lot of pocket watches" I have two 274s, very nice watches and every one in a while you will see the WI 274 which is very rare and a beaut.

I ponder if I want to retire at 65 or wait for 66 and 2 months as required for full retirement or finish the year out and retire at 66 and about 7 months to end the year on Dec 31st. That is 2 yrs away but I still think of pulling the rug and retiring early.

I need to get back to sending some watches in for COA service but my wife has me on the honey-do list in regards to the house and such and that keeps me a bit busy.

My bday was this past Sunday, and yep, I'm also pondering what to do myself. If my wife had the say-so, it would be tomorrow! LOL!

Regards! Mark

Claude/Mark, I retired 3 years prior to full pension. For about 3 years after retirement I went out on contract for 3-6 months a year until 2015 and then packed it in. Have not had a days regret and oddly enough the Company survived with out me.

Regards
Rick