Hi,

I founds a parts movement that maybe worth repairing, as per Elgin list details below is a 21J first run but in a Hunter orientation, how common is this, ho wmany have been seen? movement is a unmarked one (IE not stamped veritas, BW Ray etc)


Serial Number SN Range Quanty Name Year grade size code jewels Adj/reg/etc.
-------------- -------- ------ ---- ---- ----- ---- ------ ------ ------------
9625867 9625867 3 274 1901 274* 18s h3n9l 21j A-A5P ? mb
867 of 4000 in grade; 867 of 9th model in 18s


grade total runs first yr last yr class size code jewels Adj/name
----- ----- ----- -------- ------- ----- ---- ------ ------ ----------
274 4000 906-902 1901 1904 99 18s h3n9l 21j A-A5P / 274 VER FT BWR -

(*) notes on grade 274: Marked: 274, VER, FT, BWR or None.
first 18s model 9
# est num produced BWR: 87 FT: 321 VER: 1363 274: 2229 # REG_ELGIN or REG_RR?


Class 99: 18s HC 3/4 lever model 9
274 4000 made 21j A-A5P Marked 274, VER, FT, BWR or None. est num produced BWR: 87 FT: 321 VER: 1363 274: 2229 # REG_ELGIN or REG_RR?

**** UNKNOWN DATA LISTED! UPDATE DATABASE IF POSSIBLE ****

Search eBay logs for grade 274 watches.
Search eBay logs for 9625867.

Chris,

If only 4000 total grade 274's were produced, they would be somewhat rare. I consider the model 8 and 9 18s Elgins the best Elgin's ever built.

When you stated "parts" movement, exactly what parts are missing? Got a picture?

Hi John,

It a real nice watch and I am thinking would be nice to repair, so far we are not that far away just needs another good parts watch.
What I can see is Pallet assy, new staff, hairspring, hour wheel, ratchet wheel, barrel arbor, regulator, hour & minute wheel. All the rest looks good. Nice plate’s, jewels look ok. In all first look etc as I say a good part watch and would sort out this one quickly, I do have a fully running 19J Raymond I could use but a shame to destroy one good one for this.

We have 41 Grade 274s listed in our database. The breakdown, by marking, is as follows:

SN Series...FT...BWR...Ver...Ver WI...Plain..Total
..9,625,xxx...0.....0.......8.......0........2........10
10,513,xxx...0.....0.......1.......1........6..........8
10,854,xxx...0.....0.......3.......3........8........14
11,587,xxx...1.....2.......1.......0........5..........9

TOTALS.......1.....2......13.......4.......21........41

Hi Ed,

So if I understand correctly there where 41 HC of grade 274 according to the records? if so looking at your chart all 274 HC claim a place of interest due to the limited production?. if so this would be worth repairing. I think I could get the winding parts from Slarose or would you say ge a old movement to keep it looking original?.

Thanks again

Chris,
There were 4,000 movements made by Elgin as a Grade 274. I believe that all were made in hunting configuration. Kent Singer and I have recorded the details of 41 of these movements from dealer lists, eBay sales, Regional and National meetings, etc. Since Elgin marked these movements in various ways, but did NOT record how many they made of each marking, I listed the breakdown, by marking, of the 41 examples we had recorded.
Sorry if I caused any confusion.

Hi Ed,

I see, that is a mamoth task to try recording all the visible watches, It would almost be worth starting a section in CH185 (it may even be here!)of what people are recording.

Chris,

Just keep an eye out for parts and I will do the same. I believe the OF version of this movement should also yield the parts you need. The 19J version may have a jeweled safety barrel where this one used a brass bushing instead. To make sure, check and see if both the escape and pallet lever jewels are capped on this movement.

Good luck!

Hi John,

My 19J has the jeweled barrel center I could move the whole assy across to test if needed (the pallet arbor is not capped). I will keep it a while and look for parts, in the meantime I will replace the staff and I think I might have the correct hairspring also so can make some quick progress.

Chris

I just remembered I do also have a 21J Veritas (also 1901 I think) OF need to check the dial feet then decide the way ahead. If it was possible to swop all over would it be a upgrade?

Chris, Just an opinion. I would not be in a hurry and tear down a good running watch to get the parts. If it were I, I would wait and search for the parts. They are out there. I would be patient. Most parts are interchangeable from HC to OF and vica versa. The only parts that are not interchangeable would be a part of the gear train that came from a capped jewel setting, ie an escape wheel from a 21J watch. A capped jewel arbor has a conical arbor and a regular uncapped arbor is cylindrical.

Tom

Hi Tom,
What I think I will do, as you say, and to hold back a little and concentrate on getting as much running from my loose parts first and see how close I am from there.