Not very familiar with the Waltham watches, so here goes... How common are the 16s 23J Waltham Premier watches (no indicator) with a porcelain Montgomery dial? Dial and case are both marked Premier.

Thanks!

Adam

The Vanguard was their top of the line working watch and that grade was found in several models. While not "rare," except for a few odd variants, they are desired by collectors. If you can post pictures or a serial number from the movement we could tell you a little more.

Thanks for the info. I do appreciate it. Here is a link to one that I am selling on ebay. From the research I have done,I understand that it was Walthams last RR approved pocketwatch since it is marked 8 adjustments??? The dial on this one appears to be melamine/composite and is not marked premier.

Waltham Vanguard Auction


Here is the picture of the one I am keeping and was originally asking about. I was looking for another example of one with a porcelain Mont. dial, but couldn't find one. The dial isn't perfect, but I do like it. Any other information on this one is appreciated. I believe the minute hand is a replacement.

Movement

Case Markings

Adam,

The one in the auction is a model 1623 Vanguard produced in January 1953 according to the "gray book." I believe this was the last run of Waltham 16S Vanguards.

The one pictured is a model 1908 Vaguard, produced in September 1941, the Model 1908 had a much longer production life.

Your '08 looks like it has a monometalic, non-expansion balance wheel I'm not sure exactly when there were introduced, but my guess is that they would have been around by then.

Both are nice honest and original examples of these Waltham work-horses!

Mike,

Thanks for the information. It is appreciated. This is my first Waltham pocket-watch going into my collection.

I am starting to get a little scared. I now find myself looking at pocketwatches more often then wristwatches.

I hope the pocketwatch bug doesn't get me like the wristwatch bug did years ago.

Adam

Your watch had the same performance specifications as the Hamilton 950B and competed with it when new at roughly the same price.

The balance and hairspring are Waltham's version of Invar and Elinvar.

I'll bet you paid a lot less for it than 950B's are selling for.

Tom,

Do you know when the first "Conel" hairsprings were fitted to a Waltham? The gold color balance on Adam's watch made me wonder if it was an early variety of this temperature compensation strategy.

Adam,

Sorry to say... but it sounds like the bug has you in it's grasp already! That's OK though, you can do both wristies and pockets. I wear both

PS. Here's a later 1623 for comparison with Adam's 1908