Hi Folks

A commercial Ultrasonic Cleaner is a bit over the top for the size of my pocket watch collection.

There are numerous Ultrasonic Jewellery Cleaners which would easily hold a pocket watch or two.

Does anyone have any experience with these Jewellery Cleaners for cleaning pocket watches? If the response is positive, I would appreciate a recommended brand and model and any pros and cons found.

Gordon

I don't have any recommendations. We have about a dozen in the shop but they are all heavy-duty and commercial.

I did want to make certain that you understood that you MUST have a drier that will thoroughly dry anything that you put in an ultra-sound.

When you are ready, I can discuss some very inexpensive options in dryers. We are very careful to dry out disassembled movements AND cases so that every bit a moisture is gone. Even a tiny bit of remaining moisture will rust a stem and ruin it.

I dip hairsprings in One-Dip AFTER they are ultra-sonically cleaned because the rinse chemicals MIGHT cause the spring loops to stick together. If that happens the watch will run about an hour fast per day! But... even One-Dip must be dried. The moment the hairsring come out of the One-Dip, it hits a blast of hot air. One-Dip can rust a hairsping almost immediately.

What are you planning to clean and what solvents are you going to use?

Peter,
Have you ever had any damage to a hairspring caused by the ultrasonic cavitation itself? I would figure that if the cavitation is powerful enough to clean the movment, it would completely tangle up the hairspring, not to mention the possibility of magnetism tangling up the coils.

Also, I am surprised by One Dip rusting hairsprings. I would think that it would completely evaporate since it is mostly tri-chlorethelyne (sp.) I use it all the time and just dry the spring with a couple of gentle puffs from my asperator.

Gordon,
I would not recommend a jewelery ultrasonic for watches because I doubt the unit would be powerful enough. I am sure some stones like opels would not survive my ultrasonic machine. Try to find a machine for watches. The old spinner types work well too and can be had for a song.

Gordon,
I used a Greiner 380W 3x tank Ultrasonic cleaner until the transformer filled my den with smoke!
It was an old valve type machine, but brass clock wheels used to come out of it cleaner than when using Horolene!
Best cleaner I've ever used, but I guess it was down to the power of it.

Temporarily, I'm using a small 50W jewellery ultrasonic bath, and to be honest, although I get by with it, it's not great ..... but then it was only about £30.GBP!

There are several examples on eBay of tanks around 100W in Stainless steel, which seem to get good feedback reviews (approx £50-£200. GBP).
The sellers (UK) ship worldwide too I believe!

I still have my Brenray rotary cleaner which does a fair job, but watch plates and pivot holes need manually cleaning and pegging out before dunking, otherwise they don't get cleaned thoroughly.
It also stinks a tad during use because of the fluid getting churned up!
The big rub I've found with these cleaners, is that no matter how long you centrifuge the parts to get the rinse off, each successive dip in each rinse, does eventually contaminate the next jar so the fluid needs changing frequently.

I'd never heard of 'One Dip' rusting hairsprings before either!
I've used it for years and never had a problem ever.
I too, dry them gently with a 'puffer' straight after dunking, so maybe that's why.
I have had to use lighter fuel on occasions, as the dip doesn't always shift stubborn goo!

John

One-dip cannot in inself rust a hairspring, but as it quickly evaporates, it cools the hairspring. That cooling effect can condense moisture from the air if it is at all humid. This then causes the rust.

I use a small jewelers ultasonic cleaner. I have my cleaner and rinses in jelly jars that I suspend in the tank one at a time. I built a wooden lid with a hole cut in it to support the jelley jars. I put the watch parts in a very fine mesh tea strainer so I can transfer the parts from solution to solution. I made a drying box from a large prezel can and light bulbs for a heat source. It has a computer fan running air through it.

Don

Hi Folks

Thanks for your replies.

Peter
I am planning to clean (and service as well) my building pw collection, numbering 20 at present, by machine instead of by hand.

The solvents recommended locally are:
(i) a two part Swiss watch cleaning solvent (possibly from the company that sells Syntalube
oils),

(ii) L & R ex UK / USA, probably of the Tri-chlorethylene (dry cleaning fluid type)

(iii) n-Heptane, an aliphatic hydrocarbon, called Fuelite here, or you probably know it as Lighter Fluid.

Will drying be necessary with the fast evaporating cleaning solvents. Where I live, the climate is dry, humidity is not a problem.

Please let me know your recommendations on driers.

Scott
I will keep an eye on Ebay. Do you suggest any Ultrasonic models to look out for?

John
Who sells One-dip?
I will look out for the 100w cleaners. What brand/Model is your 50w Jewellery Ultrasonic?
With the 50w machine, do you still have to peg out the pivot holes? Is it likely that the 100w machine would eliminate any manual cleaning?

Donald
What make, model and wattage is your Jewellery cleaner? Do you have to do any manual cleaning as well? Do you use one-dip?

Gordon

I would dry everything.

A drier only need cost you a few dollars. Our consist of sturdy cardboard box, not very high. On one side, we cut a hole that will fit the nozzle of a hair-drier. The tops are usually wood because they tend to get beat-up when they are taken on and off. You will need to vent the box as the heat will build up quickly and shut-off the drier's safety-thingie. One drier has another hole cut in the box's far end, for that purpose. In another drier, we are just careful to leave an inch or so of gap when we put the top on. Even so, it will get VERY hot... too hot to touch a case or a part's basket.

And... the shop is in Arizona! It doesn't get drier than that.

As to One-Dip, I'm aware that it is a fairly common chemical, sold in small bottles. I don't remember what it is (someone here must know) but I also know that I've refilled my little bottle a half-dozen times out of a half-gallon can!

Gordon,
here's a link to an eBay listing for a similar cleaner to mine.
I've no connection to the seller, but I used to buy stuff from his shop which was close by where we used to live in Sheffield.
If you check the seller's other items, he has Stainless units there which look quite good.

An eBay search for ultrasonic tank / bath / cleaner will bring up scores of other listings.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DIGITAL-ULTRASONIC-JEWELLERY-WATC...QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

My old Greiner shifted everything, and no manual cleaning was needed.
With the small ultrasonic and the rotary Brenray, I've always had to peg out and clean manually regardless of how many cleaning cycles I've run - especially so around the winding and setting lever positions, jewel hole positions, and inside mainspring and centre wheel pivot holes.
For some reason dried grease and oil there, really takes some shifting.

The 100W unit probably will do a better job, but not one of my priorities at the moment.

I use the small wire baskets out of the Brenray, and sit them in small 'Tapenade' pots each filled with its own fluid. They come conveniently with screw lids, so seal ok after use.
I just sit them in the tank in water to stop them rattling around!

I got my One-Dip from H.S.Walsh, but I've googled a couple of suppliers I use who also stock it. They May ship overseas unless there are restricitons on shipping hazardous fluids to your country!:

Meadows and Passmore. (Own Brand Hairspring Cleaner)
http://medmaw.com/cgi-bin/medmaw/medmaw.cgi

H.S.Walsh: (Bergeon One Dip)

http://www.hswalsh.com/search.aspx?s1=one&s2=dip&s3=&f=1&l=10

Cousins Material house (Bergeon One Dip):

http://www.cousinsuk.com/default.aspx?disp=product&productid=458906

John.

My ultrasonic cleaner is a L&R PC3. It only holds 18 oz of fluid (about 500 mL). They still cost over $200. When this dies, I'll probaby get an old three bottle mechanical antique for under $50. I am a hobbist and time is not important. If you are in business, you want an automated system so you can work on watches while others are being cleaned.

The main concern about using the more volatile solvents is the added danger of fire. The lower the boiling point, the faster it evaporates and the lower the flash point. The flash point is the temperature where a small spark will ignite the vapors. The flash point for hexane is -10 degrees F (-22C). Otherwise it would not work in a lighter. The flas point of VM&P Naphtha is 50F (10 C). The flash point of Stoddard's Solvent is 100 F (38C). Commerical rinse is 75% Stoddard's Solvent and 25% VM&P Naphtha. This has a flash point of 82 F (28 C). If you are working in your home, is it worth saving a few dollars or a few minutes of your time, if it could mean your house and family? Even with the less volatile solvents, you want to vent to outside as much as possible.


Yes, if a watch has not been cleaned in decades, you will have to do hand cleaning as well. Nothing will get the polymerized oil out but hand cleaning. This is true with any cleaner. I have used large commercial mechanical and ultrasonic cleaners and when you work on vintage pocket watches as I do, you have to peg out the holes.

If the watch is cleaned when it is supposed to be cleaned, then you will not have to do hand work. I clean my Illinois Sangamo about every three years and use modern synthetic oils. A couple of good rinses will do the job.

Don

Hi Folks

Thanks again for your informed discussion.

Peter
I have taken on board the need for a drier. Would a drier only be necessary if a water based cleaner is used?

John
Thanks for the Ultrasonic and one-dip links.

Don
Your info on flash pt makes sound sense.
The only Ultrasonic machine I can source locally recommends the use of water based cleaners exclusively, I guess because it has a heater.

Does the Quantrex PC3 have a heater?

What brand of cleaner and rinse do you use in your PC3?

Gordon

If you have a small parts basket you can get by with a Badger air gun and use low pressure and regular cleaning solution. I know some disagree but it works and it's cheap.