OK, here I go again. In my "collection" of junk pocket watches this is the only one that is not gold plated. (The other gold plated ones have a quartz movement)

From the attached picture you can see there is damage to the face around the 1. That was probably done (not by me) in trying to screw the face plate back on. You can also see that the "bail" (don't know the correct term) that would allow the attachment of the watch bob is missing.

I can remove the face plate. There is a line around the back of the watch with a hashmark "decoration"

My question is does the back unscrew or pop off, or do you get to the works from the front?

Attached is a picture of the back of the watch. As you can see, the fancy scroll work is mostly worn off.

The back of the case will screw off/on and not snap off/on. Counter clockwise to take off the back cover/bezel. If there is resistance, take a jar opener fabric "gripper" from the kitchen drawer to get you a slightly better grip.

Most all American watches come out the frontside, but in order to do that the back must be removed and the case screws must be removed first.

regards,
bb

they are screw off, and one of those little kitchen rubber lid removing pads with thousands of little rubber balls on them are very helpful, as the tightness may be caused by the dings it endured here and there on the case

Thanks, I don't have one, but I will get one.

Hey there Gary,if you have time tommorow.Would like to get together and visit.Regards Roger

If you don't have one of the Kitchen rubber 'Lid Removers', rubber gloves works just as well if you have a pair, or maybe your wife does to wash dishes with....

Regards,

Jerry

Roger, I have a full schedule tomorrow. Sometimes that is amazing since I am retired.

I have a lunch meeting at noon on Wednesday.

I don't do mornings, so other than that I am open.

Gary

Well, I have tried to open the back of the watch without success. I guess I need to take it to a jeweler to solve the problem and assess what it would take to get it running again. It is so badly worn, I see two choices. One get it fixed, and use it, or sell it for gold content.

I realize without seeing the S/N on the watch, it would be difficult to check its rarety. The works my be of some value to someone repairing the watch. But the face cover is slightly warped and does not screw into place tightly.

So my basic question is, without the S/N how collectable is this watch with all of its defects?

Gary, it is the movement that is of value here, not the case, which is toast. Once you figure out how to get the back off, then you can assess the condition and worth of the movement. You could very well have a really valuable movement in there, but until you can see it, run the serial #'s on it, and get some answers on it from some of us, there's just no way of knowing. The movement can always be re cased into something much better. Regards, Brad

One other thing Gary, with the front bezel off, look at the dial by the number "1". Is there a notch there? And, if so, is there a little lever in it? If there is, this is a lever-set movement, which means that it could very well be a RR grade...which is definitely worth the time and effort. I noticed from the picture of the front, that it has what I like to call a "lever chip" on the dial. It's when the lever snaps back to hard, and chips the dial. Regards again, Brad

Thank you for all of your help. I have a local jeweler that I trust. He looked at the Waltham watch and told me is was a good watch.

I'm not sure his shop gets that much traffic and I feel I take advantage of him when I ask him for help. I always got there to have the battery replaced on my modern watch. His business needs more than me bringing a watch there for a battery replacement.

I will remove the front bezel and check.

I am not so much into the value of a watch, but the preservation of watches which reflect the history of a watch company.

I have been guilty of not wearing my watch of late, but relying on my cell phone for the time. But also, I am retired, and there are only rare occasions when I have to be somewhere at a particular time.....LOL

Ahh the modern world we live in. I forgot to mention that we don't even know if this is an 18 size watch, or a 16 size. If it is an 18, the notch I told you about will be at the "2" position. I'm glad that you have someone that you trust to work on this. In today's day and age, there is a vast difference between a "jeweler" and a "watchmaker". Anymore, a jeweler knows next to nothing about working on a watch. They sell them, and that is all they do. A watchmaker actually works on watches, and there aren't too many of them around these days. Back in the day, a jeweler was also a watchmaker, or had one on staff. It's not like that anymore. If you take an old watch to a jeweler, and want him to fix it, they give you that "deer in the headlights" look, and send it somewhere else. Regards, Brad

This guy sells jewelry and also repairs watches.

The notch is in the 2 position.

It is an 18 size, possibly railroad grade. Definitely worth getting that back off. Forgot to ask, is there a lever sticking out under the dial in the notch? Brad

It is under

Again, I am a novice at this. What determines the size on a watch?

Lever position is one factor. 18 size watches almost always had their levers at the "2" position on an open face. 16 size were at the "1" position. The movement plates also can tell you usually what size it is. 18's usually were full plate, ie the entire back of the movement was covered, with the balance wheel on top. 16 size almost always were 3/4 plate, you could see down into the movement, and the balance wheel was under the plate. I hope this helps Gary. Maybe someone can put up a couple of pictures to show you what I'm talking about. Regards, Brad

You can jump in here any time David.

Who Me? I would be working on getting the case back off so we KNOW what we are looking at. If it is 18s with a Single sunk dial at "worst" it is a 17 Jewel movement, if the dial was a replacement, then the "sky is the limit".

Well Dave, so far, we know it's an 18s Illinois. I was just wanting some help in ascertaining the sizes. LOL! Brad

The back is off. I used the kitchen gizmo with suckers to remove it.

The serial number is 2774402 which dates it to 1915. I clearly says 17 jewels and of course the Illinois Watch Company. I will send a scan of the back of the watch works.

But, on the back bezel?? you can see part of the label stuck there. It says "??ey the Sacred H???? Thy Kingdom...." There are at least three jewelers marks for repair.

Should I remove the label for more information? Or would that add more value to an antique watch?

The "works".... Hopefully this scan will show enough detail.

What is clear to me or maybe not--there appear to be two screws that are too large on the outer edge of the case. They appear to have been forced in and are not completely flush. There are also two additional screws--the right size that are not screwed down flush with the case. A bad repair job? Or some amateur at work?

Very nice! Though not a railroad grade, it is a high jeweled (17 and above), and worth saving. The two screws on the outside edge are the case screws. They are the ones that hold the movement in the case. They will never be completely flush, as they are pushing down on the case rim. The other two screws you mentioned, I'm not completely sure about. The remnants of the sticker on the inside of the case back is something that the original owner put in there. I've gotta say, you've got some nice stuff in that junk drawer of yours! Regards, Brad

The case screws at 10 and 5 o'clock that touch the gold filled case material, secure the movement and appear correct as does the 2 barrel plate screws at 1 and 4 o'clock which are probably "flush" with the top of the barrel plate bridge. The two screws on the train bridge plate at 7 and 9:45 o'clock as well as the single screw on the balance bridge plate at 11:55 o'clock will probably not be "flush" with the top of these plates and will stick up a bit higher than the plate bridges themselves.

The decal inside the back lid has nothing to do with the watch or the case itself. It is up to you as to whether you would like to remove it. If you elect to remove it, I would pour some rubbing alcohol into the little cup that the back lid forms and allow it to dissolve whatever adhesive was used. Sometimes this can take a few minutes to a few hours. I see where someone has attempted to "scratch" off part of the decal which obviously will damage the gold filled case material by the use of a tool to do this. If the rubbing alcohol has no effect, then I would pour a bit of "windex" into the formed cup and see what effect that has on the decal. Either of these can be checked in the progress by touching the decal with your finger and see if it has been dislodged and will move.

Finally if those attempts fail, I would then place it decal up in a saucepan covered with a few inches of tap water and boil the water and see if that would dissolve the glue and/or decal.

Sometimes pictures of loved ones and in this case of ones affiliation or religion have been placed in case backs of watches. It now is up to you as the new owner whether to keep these as part of the history that this particular watch went thru or to remove them. Since the decal is already damaged, I would personally attempt to remove it. It adds no value to the watch and as damaged probably will take away from the watch value since prospective new owners will wonder if the picture/decal was put there to hide something such as scratches, etc.

regards,
bb

Yeah...what Buster said. You can also elect to either repair this case, or put the movement into something that is in better shape. You were saying that the front bezel was warped and hard to screw down, the back is worn, and it is missing the bow. These things can be repaired, at a cost. I personally would opt for finding another case. There are plenty of them for sale either here, or on ebay. When this watch was made, they did not come from the factory in a case. A customer would go to a jeweler and pick out the movement he wanted, and then he would choose what particular case he liked. Regards, Brad

Gary, one thing that was never asked, what are you wanting to do with this? Are you wanting to sell it, or keep it? Makes a whole lot of difference on what to put into it. Regards, Brad

Actually, I was considering selling it. I haven't signed up for full membership, and I wasn't impressed with the sales I saw on e-Bay.

My initial thought is to have my jeweler separate the works from the case. Did I mention the watch doesn't run? Anyway, I would sell the case for gold scrap, and the works separately.

Just call me the reluctant pocket watch collector. It all started with the purchase of a "A Montandon Locle" pocket watch in its original beryl wood case. It is key wound and runs--although it needs cleaning. I think it is 18K gold.

Whatever, I will take pictures of it and post them. I bought it to carry. The markings on the outside of the case are not worn, but the case itself is very thin and fragile. It would never survive a watch pocket without coming up damaged.

If the serial# is 2774402, this is a Grade 69, Lever setting position adjusted watch, possibly a gift to a person of the clergy, or given that the heart is inside the case it could actually be a RR watch carried by someone with strong convictions. The case has little value for "Scrap", alone it might being $40-$50.00 and then the non-working movmement will bring $15.00, best guess.

The watch and case sold together as "parts or restoral" is probably in the $80 range. eBay is sort of unpredictable right now, our club auction could easily do better.