I recently received my great grandfather's pocket watch and am interested in finding out more about it. It is marked Riggs & Bro on the face and is in a Fahy's Montauk 20 yr. case. From what I've learned in my research, other manufacturers made private label watches for Riggs. So when I exposed the movement, I fully expected to see it marked by one of the well known companies of the time. Instead, it is marked Riggs & Bro. with Phila. underneath. It is also marked 15 jewels. It also has a number, 20651, which I'm assuming is the serial number. (It is strange how three digits of the serial number are on one side of a screw and the remaining two are on the other side.)

I know nothing about movements. I'm hoping somebody will recognize this movement and be able to tell me what it is.

Thanks in advance and apologies for the poor photo.

Dirk

I forgot one detail that might be important. The inscription on the watch is dated 1907.

Dick

I didn't realize you posted this in two places, I responded at the other post but I just copied both of my replies to this one.

Hi Dick

Welcome to the club!

Do you know the size of the watch, such as a 16, 14, 12? If not if you could measure the diameter of the dial.

Also if possible could you post a photo of the dial.

Illinois made watches for Riggs but although yours has some similarities to a Illinois it isn't. I will do some more research & see what I can find, perhaps someone else has an idea.

Tom

A little more, in case you didn't know. Riggs & Brother were Daniel & Robert Riggs who had a jewelery store in Philly.

I will post some more on them later today after work.

Tom

Dick

Another question, on the balance cock where it has F S engraved, does it also have A F, I can't tell from the glare in your photo.

I am thinking perhaps Swiss made but that is only a guess, I notice it has a dent set screw which I think was more common on Swiss watches.

One other note, it looks like one of your case screws is loose, it is the screw near Riggs & Bro, it is a half screw that holds the watch in the case. You need to be careful taking the front bezel off until that screw is tightened, it keeps the movement from moving around in the case & from falling out.

Tom

Hello Dirk, and welcome to IHC185, we're delighted to have you stop in and show your watch with questions....

As Tom has suggested, your watch has similarities to Illinois but it is not an Illinois watch....

Elgin also made watches for Riggs & Bro in Philly but the only one I can find that is an Elgin is s/n 1794051 which is not your watch either....

I agree with Tom, also, in thinking it could be a swiss movement....So this is going to require a little more research but have no fear, we will get to the bottom of it....

In the meantime you may want to consider becoming a full member of our organization, it only costs $12.00 a year, that is only .03 cents a day....What a deal, you can't beat that....

Others will post here as well and likely as not, before the day is gone you will know much more about your watch....

BTW, Tom is correct about your case screw being loose, with a small screw driver, turn the screw a quarter turn clockwise, to make sure the movement does not fall out....

Again, Welcome to the 185 Express where the Online Horology Discussion never ends....

Regards,
Jerry

Tom,

Thanks so much for your response. Sorry for the double posting, but, like I said, I'm new.

I'll measure the watch this evening, but here's a picture of the dial.

I don't have the watch with me, so I can't tell whether or it has A F engraved in the area where F S is engraved. I'll look tonight and try to take a better picture.

I've got a newbie question for you. What is a dent set screw and where would I find it on the picture? Thanks for the comment about the loose screw. I want to take it to a watchmaker and have it looked at. The crown does not extend/release without a few tries and quite a bit muscle. How should I go about finding an appropriate watchmaker?

Dirk

Hi

I am a terrible speller, the screw I mentioned is detent screw, sorry about that.

Here is a link that talks about it;
https://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/f...571092101#9571092101

As far as a watchmaker for repair goes, one of the best is a member of this club & you will here his name mentioned a lot, he is Chris Abell, here is a link to one of his posts;
https://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/f...6013713/m/7771058762

There are other members who do watch repair, perhaps if they are taking on new customers they will speak up.

Also, don't worry about the double post, I should have been paying more attention.

Tom

Dirk, I would definetely recommend Chris Abell, and also if it is hard to switch from Wind to set . . . DON'T . . . until the watch has been cleaned up and re-lubricated. The HARDEST part to find for these swiss contract pieces are the winding stem and it WILL break when forced.

Hi Dirk

Sorry I have been calling you Dick, I guess besides not being able to spell I guess I can't read either.

Still researching your watch but I thought I would add some more about the Riggs Brothers.

There family has been in Philly for a long time, I found where in 1850 they were living there & their father William was a watchmaker, then they had an older brother William that was a watchmaker & then Robert & Daniel went on to be watch makers. Below is a part of the 1850 Philly census. Since you live in Philly you might have access to a lot more information than I do.

By the way, back in the 80's I use to visit your city a lot when I was a homicide detective in Jersey. I always liked Philly.

Tom

Also found this info;

Wm. H.C. Riggs, a Philadelphia clock and watch maker, established Riggs & Brother in 1818. Subsequent family members continued the firm, keeping its name over the years. In addition to retailing jewelry, silverware, clocks, and watches, the business expanded to include repair work and supplying nautical paraphernalia and industrial timepieces.

The company's clientele was not restricted to the Philadelphia area. There were quite a number of contacts and contracts with various offices in the United States government, as well as with individuals and governments overseas.

Tom

Tom,

The balance cock does not have A F engraved on it; however, that area is the only place on the movement that has any ornamental engraving on it. I measured it; it's a 12. (1 9/16") I wasn't able to get a better picture last night. I'll work on it tonight.

Dirk

Tom and Jerry,

Thanks for all your help. I really appreciate it. I think the watch is beautiful and well preserved given its age. A lot of its value to me comes from it being a family heirloom - knowing that my great great grandfather gave it to my great grandfather.

But I love mechanical things and have recently been bitten by the wrist watch bug, so the it's a great thrill to me to be able to learn as much as I can about this watch. Thanks again.

As far as the history of Riggs & Bro is concerned, the Winterthur Musuem in Winterthur, DE (just a few miles north of Wilmington) has company's records including a day book, correspondence, orders, invoices, bills, and receipts, both from Riggs & Brother to their clients and from suppliers to Riggs & Brother. According to the musuem's web site, it has correspondence and orders covering all of 1907. Riggs & Brother
One of these days I'm going to go down there and go through the records to see if I can find when the watch was ordered or if there is any correspondence about the watch.

Dirk

Hi Dirk

Glad to hear the bug has bitten you, we all have the same virus.

Whoever you have work on it you might ask them to make note of any marks under the dial, some makers put their logo under the dial.

That would be neat if you could actually find the record where your family ordered the watch.

Tom

Dirk, I would highly suggest that you follow Dave's advice and send the watch to Chris Abel, he is one of the finest, if not THE finest, Watch Maker that I am aware of....

Also, I would suggest that you go ahead and take the plunge and join with us as a full member so that you have access to the full site of IHC185.... It's only $12.00/year....besides, that is the only antidote that I know of for the "Horology" bug that you have caught....

Regards,
Jerry

Here are some new pictures.

Dirk

Another one.

One of the face.