Mod.4 Hunter s/n 1207869 mfd.1899 Anyone know anything of this Grade 3 Ball? Regards Roger

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The open face 3 ball Hampden was RR approved so the hunter would be RR grade and neither the OF or HC was made in great numbers. A nice one to have in the collection no matter if it is the hunter or open face version.

Thanks Claude,I believe 3550 of this grade made 1750 being hunter.Was this a grade that did't meet Ball standards? I am just confused about the 3 Ball grade designation.

These watches had nothing to do with Webb C. Ball Roger.

I lot of sellers try and pass them as "Ball" watches.

regards,
bb

Thanks Buster.I knew it wasn't a Webb C Ball as such.Just think it odd as to the 3 Ball grade designation.

As far as what I have heard Webb and John did not see eye to eye and some felt the design was a jab at Ball watch company by the look of the design. The "3 Ball" I think is connected to train traffic signals and when the term "3 Ball" means the track is clear and you can throttle up if needed. I think the term "high balling" falls into that term.

Highball signals were actually 30 feet high and were located at stations along on the railway right-of-way, at first black and white flags were used, but they did not work properly, then bell shaped peach baskets were used, which were later replaced with large metal spheres 14 inches in diameter, they were known as ball signals, to control train movements the station agent would hoist the ball, permitting the train to proceed. The balls were raised and lowered by a chain and pulley system. The photos and diagram are from one that still exists in Delmar, Delaware

Photo of Highball signal in on display in Delmar, Delaware

Chain and bottom pulley.

Another view.

Wikipedia also covers it on the topic early mechanical signals http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N...can_railroad_signals

From the article it appears to have been 3 balls, painted red, white or black, and hoisted up or down a pole on a rope pulley system or a chain pulley system.

From what Larry has mentioned along with the Wikipedia article the name "3 Ball" makes much more sense.

Claude and Larry thanks a million.The 3 ball grade now makes sense.What a treasure trove of knowledge exsists amoung the members here.Again thanks.Now I can sleep!

There is also a John Hancock 18s 21j that has the same pattern rather than the normal pattern for the John Hancock. I consider myself lucky to have one an open face version of the 3 Ball, I don't see the hunter version that often or for that matter you don't see the open face version show up that often.

Claude with only a production total of 3550 between the two a hundred and 13 yrs ago I doubt there are many still floating around 300-400 maybe.Just my thought on this.Perhaps I will find an OF to compliment my hunter.Will keep looking anyways.Regards Roger

Claude I have a 3 Ball pattern John Hancock and the 3 Ball open face but not the hunter version. The story I have heard over the years is that when Webb Ball and John Dueber got into a fight Webb Ball would not have Hampden make any watches for him and John Dueber did the 3 Ball design just to irritate Webb Ball. Well at least it is a good story!

Deacon I figure it more truth than fiction!

Roger I collect Hampdens and that got me to learning about Mr. Dueber. He seems to have been an excellent case maker and a hard nosed but honest man. He was known for "German"stubbornness and he did not like what he thought of as unfair play. He did not suffer fools gladly and was not overly patient. He was an excellent horseman by all accounts and interestingly a Roman Catholic who was a good friend of President McKinley and a supporter of the Republican party in general. At the same time he sold a lot of Masonic dial watches and while supporting his church never made a big deal out of it. I think I like the man because he reminds me of my wonderful German grandfather, but we can leave that for Freud. I bring all this up because Mr. Ball seems to have had many of the same attributes and I do believe there was a personality conflict. Remember also that Mr. Dueber successfully fought the big boys who tried to destroy him. This was not a man who would sit back and be a punching bag. Personally the 3 Ball story strikes me as exactly what Mr. Dueber would have done and he probably liked it. John Dueber was a hard competitor.

Here is my Hamilton Masonic double sunk, bold Arabic dial made for G.H. Cline it is on an 18 size Special Railway Serial No. 2486864 manufactured in 1908. It is housed in a Dueber 20 year gold filled case.

Larry