Sometimes I will take a chance and there was a WI with a dirty dial and rusted hands that they thought was a 23j Vanguard but they could not get the back off. The case looked good and I thought I could clean the dial up and the hands could be replaced. The serial number is 25,343,064 and after some serious effort I was able to get the back off by using a roll lint remover with a handle and the handle was enough leverage to get the back to budge.
It is cased in a 14K wgf factory Waltham cased & timed with no wear through and detail still crisp, it needs service and a mainspring but the movement is clean other than some oil that I think someone put in hoping to get the back off. Most WI's have a porc DS dial but this one has what looks to be a factory silvered metal dial. I know Elgin did some silvered metal dials saying they provided better viewing in low light conditions but I did not know if other companies did that also. I picked it up for $350 plus shipping which I thought was an ok price, it will need a COA to get the extra oil out but appears to be a decent watch.
Does anyone have any insight on the silvered metal dial?
Posts: 1797 | Location: Michigan in the USA | Registered: September 19, 2009
Nice watch Claude, beautiful package deal with the factory case and all...
I've had several of the Walthams with the hi-vis metal dials. All RR grade Crescents, Riversides or 19J AWWCo's. I've destroyed a couple of these dials attempting to clean them up. I learned the hard way that alcohol wipes do a nice job of removing the numbers.
With the even patina (aging) on this dial and otherwise still nice looking numbers and markings... I would leave it alone and keep it as original as possible.
With no tool marks, odd stains or spotting... I think it looks great just the way it is.
Sending one of these to a dial restoration outfit is a hit and miss proposition at best and in my opinion adds less value than what is spent on the "restoration"... the dial ends up looking too new and somehow fake.
The other alternative is to lay low and wait for a double sunk porcelain wind indicator dial to surface... spendy proposition at best... and less than original I would suspect.
You should be able to spring for a COA and still have plenty of up-side left... or one prize piece for your collection.
Posts: 2032 | Location: San Diego, California in the USA | Registered: August 30, 2012
Wish I was back up and running . . . It deserves to be kept all original. The metal dial was "all the rage" in the early 20th century. Waltham advertised it as their "High-Visibility" dial. It did not crack, and given the condition of this one, the MOST I would do is a mild hand wash (NO PAPER OR CLOTH RAGS) and use it as-is.
Posts: 6492 | Location: Southern California in the USA | Registered: July 19, 2007
I had an Elgin BWR grade 506 wind indicator and sold it and decided I needed a WI in my collection and these 23j Waltham are high grade watches even if they made a lot of them. It looks to have been a victim of the dreaded yellow crystal that started eating the hands but it has a nice glass crystal on it now. I figure with a new set of hands and service it should be a nice add to the collection.
Posts: 1797 | Location: Michigan in the USA | Registered: September 19, 2009
I like the metal dial WI...here's one I bought earlier this year, had to pay a little more for it but has the unique Waltham WI bit and it is the scarcer 21J Crescent St. I would wipe the dial with a clean dry cloth to get the dust off but nothing more...these have a patina which IMO only enhances them.
I have another on that was shipped to the UK and had an English dial fitted(single sunk and marked USA). I have never seen another English Wind Indicator dial. It was cased by Dennison in an 18K solid gold case.
Posts: 134 | Location: Blackpool, England | Registered: February 04, 2010
Claude, I'd say you "done good". I concur with the notion of leaving the dial alone. Tough to do anything but damage if you try to clean it. Nice pick!
Posts: 3112 | Location: Klamath Falls, Oregon in the USA | Registered: October 13, 2007
Claude you have a nice watch and a great case. I have had a number of Vanguards with the metal dial and it is legitimate as Waltham did provide metal dials. I believe the Lossier indicators are thought to be the best of Walthams indicator production but the Waltham collectors would know more than I.
Deacon
Posts: 1004 | Location: Omaha, Nebraska in the USA | Registered: February 14, 2009
Here is my Waltham 16 size, 23 jewel, wind indicator, Serial No.25343147, 83 pocket watches after your serial number 25343064. I bought it from a CPR locomotive engineer. I used to work with, he had used it earlier in his career when he started out as a locomotive firemen in 1947.
Larry
Posts: 3370 | Location: Okotoks Alberta Canada | Registered: November 22, 2002
One interesting aspect about this pocket watch is the repair mark numbers scratched into the case back by Calgary watchmaker George Forbes Ritchie, who serviced railway pocket watches for CPR train crews from 1917 to 1970, all his repair ledgers were donated to the Glenbow Museum, I have made photocopies of these ledgers, he used a alphabet, numerical system for each ledger, starting with the alphabetical prefix letter from his name RITCHIE, as you can see in the photo, he started with the right-hand column in the I, and finished with the left hand column in the T's. So every time the engineer Ron Wilson took his pocket watch for inspection, cleaning, and repairs, they are all noted from 1947, into the 1960s when Ron like many other railway men purchased the new Acutron wristwatches, many of them trading in their pocket watches for a $25 discount. Fortunately for me Ron put his pocket watch aside, it had a broken mainspring when I bought it from him.
Posts: 3370 | Location: Okotoks Alberta Canada | Registered: November 22, 2002
