My new BW Raymond!!!!!!!!!!

May 05, 2006, 23:39

Sheila Gilbert

I just love it!

May 05, 2006, 23:41

Sheila Gilbert

Isn't it a HONEY? !!!!

I wish you could see this movement in person, it's beautiful and the design and shine is outstanding.

May 05, 2006, 23:49

Sheila Gilbert

Here she is, sweet huh?

May 06, 2006, 05:53

Joel W. Sarich

Sheila:
Great looking B.W.R.! Congratulations~!
Joel Sarich

May 06, 2006, 06:55

James A. Daigle

Nice watch, like those 24 hour dials. Good to see something like that, enjoy! Jim.

May 06, 2006, 06:55

Phillip Sanchez

Sheila, it is truly beautiful. Phil

May 06, 2006, 07:35

Ron Birchall

Ya gotta love those Raymonds Sheila!

A very handsome watch!

May 06, 2006, 10:06

Robert M. Sweet

Sheila,
Thanks for sharing your really nice BWR.

The Hamilton No. 7, except for the pendant, look very similiar.

Robert

May 06, 2006, 10:34

Matthew Bieniek

Sheila,

It's a beautiful watch. I'm a fan of Elgin's too.

Matt

May 06, 2006, 11:08

Sheila Gilbert

Thanks Everyone! I'm thrilled with it.

I have few RR Watches and you know by now how I love Elgins!

Robert, Wow, thanks for the post, I didn't know they were so much alike. Great

For some reason this one really pleased me a lot.

Sometimes they just "Catch Ya" ya know?

May 07, 2006, 09:40

Tom Huber

Sheila, A great watch. I couldn't quite make out the SN in your pic. Does it start with 43? Is the case marked in back, Cased and timed by Elgin?

Tom

May 07, 2006, 17:00

Sheila Gilbert

Tom,
SN 43148914 and no, the case is a 10k GF Fortune, Sturdy? Never heard of the case before, but it's nice. I especially like the bezel on it, and it opens and closes real nice too.

May 07, 2006, 19:45

Tom Huber

Thanks Sheila, That would put your watch at around 1945. At that time most all Elgins were factory cased, especially the BWR's. It appears that the original case on your BWR probably wore out or was damaged, and the owner had it put into the nice existing case. The reason for my question was--if it had been marked cased and timed by Elgin in the back, we might have seen a previously unknown Elgin case.

Tom

May 07, 2006, 20:03

Larry K. Burwell

Sheila,

Fortune and Sturdy were Canadian-made cases--so your watch might be original to that case. Hamilton watches were put in these case names when new and I think it was a Canadian government requirement for American movements (any make) to be sold "up there" in Canadian cases. Others may know more on this subject and it would be good to get that info from them. Are you sure the case back does not state "Made in Canada?"

Best regards,
Larry

May 07, 2006, 20:22

Lindell V. Riddle

WHOA!!!

Looks like Larry beat me to it!

Perhaps this will help you even further Sheila...

Tom's advice about your watch would be correct for the US market, but as Larry correctly pointed out that's not what you have. In fact what you have is indeed a fairly uncommon watch put together specifically for the Canadian market.

Begin with the Canadian style 24-Hour Dial. You said the case is a "Fortune" which is a Canadian made case. If it also says "Sturdy" that fits perfectly. I would not be at all surprised if you find "Made in Canada" there as well. I would bet the watch you found is an original combination.

As Robert pointed out the Hamilton Case 7 is essentially similar because after Keystone was done making that case here in the states the dies were sent to Canada for the manufacture of cases there. The point of that was to comply with "Canadian Content" restrictions in effect during the 1940s which I recall continued through the 1960s and perhaps later. I believe in order to avoid tariffs on watches movements were shipped to Canada and were cased there in Canadian cases.

Last year at about this time we sold a Hamilton 992B in our Chapter 185 Auctions, same style case.

Here is a link to that auction...

EARLY 992B, CANADIAN PACIFIC PORCELAIN DIAL, CANADIAN CASE!

Look at the images you find there and see what you think.

Keep these wonderful posts coming,

Best always,

Lindell

May 07, 2006, 20:52

Robert M. Sweet

Below is a link to a "T. Eaton (1953) Catalog", showing the Hamilton 992B in a Canadian "Fortune" case.

Can anyone identify the case with houses the BWR?

Robert

http://elginwatches.org/scans/non_elgin_ads/1953/h_t_eaton_large.html

May 07, 2006, 21:02

Lindell V. Riddle

Looks like this particular style that Sheila has and that Tony bought in our auction was a 1940s model. But without question they were still using the "Fortune" name in the 1950s according to the advertisement Robert found on Wayne's Elgin Site. I see the case we know as "J. Boss Railroader" on the others but the one housing a B. W. Raymond looks a lot like what I'd recognize as being an aftermarket Star case when sold here.

Very interesting.

May 07, 2006, 21:31

Sheila Gilbert

Wow, Thanks guys, you got it right, it's Canadian for sure. Looks exactly like the linked one, Tree and all, without the bird etching! hehehe so cool.

All this information! WOW this is great.

I love it.

May 10, 2006, 19:02

Robert V. Jones

Cool I have one listed that has close to same serial number but mine is not Canadian like yours. They are nice watches.

May 11, 2006, 02:11

Sheila Gilbert

Robert,
Different grade and date.
Mine is 43,148,914 size 16s, grade 590, 1944, 21J, Adj 5 Pos.

Unless I have the number wrong, 3,139,523, yours is a size 18s, 1888, grade 10, 11J. ???

RIght? Wrong? Check it out.

Very nice watch, Beautiful.

May 11, 2006, 03:07

Ron Birchall

Sheila

Robert has mis-stated his serial number [in the description]. From the photo of his movement, it is 43148074, a Gr 590 from the same run as yours.

I have 43395389 from the next run, a year later. It has the same dial as yours but is in the more common Elgin Streamline case by Keystone.

I agree with you; these watches are HONEYs!

Ron

May 11, 2006, 04:37

Sheila Gilbert

Ron,
I thought that's what happened!
I couldn't see the movement that well with this computer of mine.

Boy they are close huh?
Thank you for clearing that up for me.

Honey's for sure. I really do enjoy mine, I can't seem to put it away, it sits here right now, but I will store it soon for another one. I like to change them around sometimes, so I can enjoy them, not just pack them up.

OH! and I love your watch too! That case is great!
They just have a "Look" about them huh???

May 11, 2006, 07:00

Robert V. Jones

OOPs

Ron you caught me I am Human I made a mistake LOL. Thanks I need to try and be more careful. On another note does anyone know when they started writing the "BW Raymond" on the dial?

May 11, 2006, 10:51

Ed Ueberall

The B. W. Raymond marking was added to the dial during the manufacture of the Grade 571. The early dials were NOT marked B. W. Raymond (nor were the movements), but by 1948/9 both the dial and movements markings were added. The 24 hour dials, both with and without Mongomery marginal minute figures, did not have the "B. W. Raymond" signature.

May 11, 2006, 12:56

C. Keith Johnson

Sheila, I just had to show you my "OLD" Canadian BW Raymond. 103 yrs old and goes to work every day. Don't you just love the upside down 18!.............Keith

May 11, 2006, 12:59

C. Keith Johnson

Dial

May 11, 2006, 13:11

Robert V. Jones

Thanks Ed for the info

May 11, 2006, 22:22

Steven D. Jencso

Sheila, that's a very nice grade 590 that you picked up. I especially like the Canadian dial.

Here's an example of a 24-hour Montgomery dial on a Grade 571. (I really need to learn to take better pictures of my watches

)

May 14, 2006, 21:15

Sheila Gilbert

Ed, You always have such great information! I just love it when you pass on what you know to all of us. Thank you!

C. Keith, Great Watch! I didn't even notice the 18, Wow so cool. The dial is fantastic and so sharp, like new!

Steven, Very Nice! I always wanted one of those too, but alas, I have to wait a while for my next buy, I'm busy with cinder blocks right now.